Some problems with new release

• Mar 14, 2013 - 20:42

I have some scores with 24 4 time signature. I am largely working with plainsong and recitation. When I count the notes, some of the measures are coming up short. Like 21 or 22 notes etc. This score crashed repeatedly when I tried to copy one of these measures and appended measures were unusable. I tried save as xml and then opened the xml file. The result was: Styles lost, hidden rests lost, score too wide for the page where it hadn't been before, I did not proceed further. It would be useful to have xml predictably working because then I could possibly program the notes from a database.

I note that breath markings etc do not copy when a stave is copied. So a paste results in marks that are out of place. How else does one insert a note or remove a note from a phrase except by copy and paste? The load of the xml seemed to have a similar result; breath marks out of place.

I expect I will have to recreate this score from scratch - perhaps it was a data conversion problem. Files are attached - note the incomplete last measure with the wrongly aligned right bar line. Compare measure 1 with XML measure 1.

Attachment Size
Psalm 2.mscz 6.06 KB
Psalm 2.xml 94.89 KB


How did you create the MSCZ file in the first place? The first measure is a 24/4 measure with only 21 quarters but if you play it, you will hear some rests, for example after the 19th quarter. If you check the MusicXML import, you will see this rest too.

To enter a measure with 21 quarters, you could create a 24/4 time signature and hide it, like you did, but then you need to change the duration of the measure to 21/4. Right click the measure -> Measure properties -> Actual duration 21/4

Not related tip. Did you know that you can remove instrument name (Voice, Vo.) by selecting it and press Del?

In reply to by [DELETED] 5

Thank you for your comment. Yes - I think you have the problem identified. There must be internal indicators of time that are somewhat redundant and they get out of sync with each other. I am changing my approach to this piece completely and spelling out the complex word rhythms in shorter bars.

Hi Bob, and welcome to MuseScore :)

I am working weekly with plainsong, as it forms part of my remit as a church DoM

MuseScore 1.x is not ideal for writing this kind of music, and I am now mostly using the unstable nightly builds of MuseScore 2 for this purpose as the split and join measure functions mean you are not continually counting beats.

As an aside, Liber Usualis, the basic handbook on the reading and writing of plainsong in it's traditional notation format assers that plainsong is based on quaver movement and not crotchet. This particular 1.x score, a Mode 5 melody I wrote recently demonstrates this:

I have found that MuseScore 1.x sometimes corrupts measures when continually changing time signatures, and I suspect this is what you have experienced here. Unfortunately I have never been able to consistently reproduce this, so have not been able to submit a useful bug report.


In reply to by ChurchOrganist

Michael - thank you for your warm welcome. My intent is to use the te'amim to create music in English with my translation of the Psalms, recently published under the title Seeing the Psalter. A very brief introduction to the musical content of the te'amim (hand-signals) is here. Your own work looks lovely. I have been a plainsong cantor for over 50 years. It is a struggle to imagine how to get the musical images into a book. My Seeing the Psalter is 526 pages with complete Hebrew-English and English Hebrew glosses (non-overlapping). It is a very close reading. I have an interested composer here and many performers - but there's always room for more if you would like to participate.

In reply to by Bob MacDonald

So you're working with Jewish melodies :)

That is an incredibly interesting project, as it is the foundation of Western Christian plainchant, passed down through Byzantine chant.

Do you find modern notation sufficient to pass on the nuances found in the chant? As you probably know there is a well established notation for writing western plainchant, which accurately notates these nuances. It is, however, very often a barrier to musicians exploring this wonderful music, so when I am transcribing or creating melodies within this context I mainly use standard Western music notation.

In reply to by ChurchOrganist

According to Suzanne Haik Vantoura, she has uncovered very ancient melodies. They are beautiful - but there are tose who might disagree.

I revised the first two psalms. There is quite a strong coherence to the whole Psalter, Psalms 1 and 2 being the first unit, and introducing the whole. Psalms 3-7 will be the next unit, then 8-10. I think there are potential musical motifs that can be exploited in the English version, e.g. the triplets between the two psalms 1 and 2 though they are quite different from each other. They need to be sung with flexible rhythm - almost impossible to do with musescore, but I can hopefully communicate an idea to be exploited. There is a very curious agreement in the music of these two psalms - in Psalm 1, on gives its fruit in its time - and on angry at the end of Psalm 2. I think this has theological value - that we learn and bear fruit through difficulty.

Here are the files in English. I do them in Hebrew first them reconfigure the melodies to the English underlay. - could have accomp - lute, guitar - I suggest timpani - the alternating rhythmic with recitative may work

The next group calls for flute and strings

It is a beginning. SHV has done the whole Psalter in Hebrew. And has her own style in choosing modes and accompaniment. Other composers may have alternatives for the English.

In reply to by ChurchOrganist

Michael - I watched your drum set demo - thanks. Now is it possible to have voice and tympani on the first stave and then drop the tims on the subsequent staves (+ variations). This is an experimental question. Suppose a song needs the instruments only for a few staves.



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