Db Cornet?
I'm transcribing an orchestral piece that calls for both a “Mi b Cor.” and a “Re b Cor.” From the Google translator I got that "Mi" is the Italian abbreviation for E and "Re" is D. So the Eb Cornet works perfectly for the "Mi b Cor." ; however, there is no Db Cornet in the instrument listings, in fact I can't find a Db anything. The piece is written in the key of Db major and the 2 cornet staves are written in the key of C major. Is there a key signature change or a "Play Transposition" modification that will translate an instrument into a Db cornet? Obviously, I have no training in these type instruments so please make any explanation very simple for the very ignorant.
Comments
Can you post an image of that part of the score?
A Db cornet would be a rare instrument (although since Db piccolos existed for military bands there might be a few about). Yes, if the orchestra is scored in Db then a Db cornet would be written in C major. But then the Eb cornet (a more usual instrument) would be written in Bb. Since both are written in C Major, I'm confused.
You can "make" a Db cornet by adding an Eb cornet, right-clicking on part of the score and choosing Stave Proprieties. Then change the Play Transposition to Minor Second.
In reply to Can you post an image of that by underquark
Changing the Play Transpostion on an Eb Cornet to Minor Second has worked to morph it into a Db Cornet. Thanks. I don't have a scanner to make an image to attach. I can upload an extract of the score to MuseScore.com if you still want to see a part that has a Db Cornet.
In reply to Changing the Play by hmscomp
I was curious as to how they had written it on the original score and why they'd want two transposing instruments so close together in tuning for the same piece of music and also wondered if such a score had any other oddities or rare instruments. What is the piece, by the way, as it may already be on t'internet?
In reply to I was curious as to how they by underquark
The piece is the Sextet from Donizetti's opera "Lucia Di Lammermoor". You can see the opera's entire score at: http://imslp.org/wiki/Lucia_di_Lammermoor_(Donizetti,_Gaetano). If you want to see just the Sextet, download just the 2nd Act and use Shift+Ctrl+N to Go To page 122 where the Sextet starts. The two cornets start on the next page. The only other "oddity" is that later it calls for an Eb trombone. There's no such instrument on MuseScore and the "soprano" trombone there doesn't work. So I substitued the Eb alto horn and selected its "trombone" sound on the mixer.
In reply to The piece is the Sextet from by hmscomp
The keys of E flat and D flat make sense because the key of the piece is D flat major. Horn parts were traditionally written in C major with any accidentals added.
Trb. in Si b are trumpets in B flat. Trombe in Italian.
This should make it sound better.
In reply to Cor. are french horns, not cornets. Corne in Italian by Myer
Proves a little bit of knowledge always gets you in trouble. Maybe I should double check some of my other instrument assumptions. Is a Fg. a flugelhorn? Also, what is a P.G.L.?
In reply to Proves a little bit of by hmscomp
Depending on context, Fg. is more likely bassoon (Fagotte in German). Looks like that's the case here, since it is bass clef and grouped with the woodwinds. No idea about P.G.L. - where do you see that? Context helps - seeing if it is grouped with woodwinds, brass, strings, or what; clef, key, etc.
In reply to Depending on context, Fg. is by Marc Sabatella
It's a percussion instrument on page 130.
In reply to It's a percussion instrument by hmscomp
Oops! I meant P.G.C. I decided to use the Crash Cymbal. Sounds pretty good.
In reply to Oops! I meant P.G.C. by hmscomp
curiosity, from Wikipedia: Donizetti had thought, for the "mad scene", the use of glass harmonica.
good day to all
In reply to Oops! I meant P.G.C. by hmscomp
I think they should be: Piatti e GranCassa, i.e. cymbals and bass drum.
For the other abbreviations, you can simply look at page 1, where the names are fully written.
Ciao,
ABL
In reply to P. G. C. by ABL
Great! I was thinking from how it was written that it likely wasn't one instrument P.G.C. but rather P. above and G.C. below, but i wasn't seeing any notes below. The lack of a full listing at the beginning of the score is a bit unusual.
In reply to Great! I was thinking from by Marc Sabatella
http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/adg7955/large/
In reply to Great! I was thinking from by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for your help on my confused "Db cornet" question. I'm now tackling an excerpt from Act III of Der Rosenkavalier (see: http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/1/13/IMSLP31874-PMLP2934…) which has another mystery (to me) instrument. It's the "Ba?clarinette.(B)". The letter "?" seems to be 2 letters on top of each other. It's written for the bass clef and I don't see any clarinet in MuseScore written for the bass clef. Is there another path to such an instrument?
In reply to Thanks for your help on my by hmscomp
The scoring is as follows:-
2 flutes
piccolo
2 oboes
cor anglais
E flat clarinet
2 B flat clarinets
bass clarinet - the symbol you are referring to is an obsolete German symbol for ss
3 bassoons
4 horns in F
3 trumpets
3 trombones
tuba
timpani
then the usual strings
HTH
Michael
In reply to The scoring is as follows:- 2 by ChurchOrganist
It is called an Eszett (ß), and is definitely still in use in the German language.
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eszett
In reply to Not quite obsolete... by zstadt
While indeed the "ß" is not obsolete at all, its use in the word "Bass" is obsolete since the spelling reform of 1996
In reply to The scoring is as follows:- 2 by ChurchOrganist
Thanks. I guess I should have noted that the excerpt I'm working on starts on page 176, 6th measure, of the PDF. At that point, the low Es in the bass clef for the bass clarinet seem to be out of its range or should I just ignore the red markings on those notes?
In reply to Thanks. I guess I should by hmscomp
"Many" bass clarinets have a low Eb. Not sure if it's common enough that MuseScore should change it's range listing. There are other cases where different models of the same instrument have different ranges and people occasionally question how MuseScore should handle it. Eg, some saxhones have high F#'s or low A's, others don't. I tend to not worry about how the warnings work but to make my own decisions.
So assuming your goal is to reproduce the score exactly, keep the Eb's. If your goal is to produce music to be played by the widest ratne of musicians, consider alternatives, but bass clarinetists who don't have low Eb's are probably accustomed to dealing with this themselves.