Some remarks on tablatures
A couple of days ago I have discovered, downloaded and tried MuseScore 1.3 as well as the latest nightly built version. First of all: congratulations! What a useful and well done programm. It’s relatively easy to handle concerning inputting the music, layout functions and print options. Besides all helpful features and as a lute player I was really surprised to find some tablature functions implemented in the version 2.0., though these functions seems to be reduced more or less to guitar music for a 6-string instrument. On the other hand italian and french tab styles are already built in which are usually taken for lute music tabs. Concerning the tabs I have some remarks:
1. in lute-tabs rhythm signs are usually written above the tab (not above and below like in some guitar tabs), and they are only put there when the rhythm changes. MuseScore 2.0 seems to be unable to show the rhythm signs in french or italian tabs correctly because it shows only the rhythm of the upper voice of a piece with two or more voices. (I send herewith a short tab where I have marked those „errors“ with red flashes!). Of course it would be fine if MuseScore could show the correct rhythm.
2. another improvement would be if MuseScore could show at the beginning of each bar the last rhythm sign from the bar just before. This would make tabs much easier to read and follow.
3. it would be helpful to be able to create its own „instrument templates“, which should include all information about the instrument(s) I will make a tab for - for example different tunings for lutes (from 6 -14 courses) or other plucked instruments (irish bouzouki, cittern, etc.) - and save them!
As long as I see tabs are only available for instruments of just 6 strings. Lute music mostly requires more strings in the bass: 7-10 courses for renaissance lutes, up to 14 courses for theorboes and baroque lutes. Is there a possibility to show the strings/courses 7-14 under the tab system? Does anyone already tried it out or found a solution?
Lute music in italian or french tab is already present in MuseScore, but only for instruments up to 6 strings/courses. If there would be a possibility to make MuseScore able to handle also instruments up to 14 courses it would be really great. I hope that my remarks could help to improve the programm (which is already quite good!) .
All the best
raluc
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Comments
I'm no expert on the new tablature stuff, but I'm pretty sure most of what you ask about is already there. If you go to Style / Staff types, you'll see you can create tablature staves with any number of strings, and when you click the Full Configuration button, you'll see options to control whether various symbols are incldued, whether they appear above or below the staff, etc. And these settings can be saved along with other style settings via Style / Save Style, or made part of a template, so you should be able to reuse them as you see fit.
In reply to I'm no expert on the new by Marc Sabatella
Hello Marc,
thanks for your comment which in fact helped me to discover and understand more of MuseScore's functions. I've tried to follow your advice and there are already a lot of functions implemented under Style / Staff types and Full Configuration - but not what I am looking for. At least I didn't find these - of course - very, very particular lute tab options. If there is a low note which doesn't fit on the lowest string MuseScore shows a red mark - and that's all. No way to show any sign UNDER the tab?
Indeed there are some buttons to make MuseScore show 7 ore more system or tab lines. But that's not how lute music has been written or printed in the past. Lute tabs always have a 6-line-system (except some very rare exceptions) like the modern guitar tab which shows the strings on the fretboard and the rhythm signs are always above (never under). But a lot of lutes have more than 6 strings/courses (up to 14), and these low strings/courses are written under the tablature. Please have a look on my attachement Tab_french.jpg.
I have seen that MuseScore already includes definitions and templates of most of the different lute-types and I guess that it would be consequent to make the programm show all what's indispensable, necessary and important in lute tablatures. A possibility to show the low strings correctly is essential in lute tablatures!
- The problem of wrong rhytm signs in french tab still remains (see attachement Tab-Test_B.jpg). Any suggestions?
Thanks a lot
raluc
In reply to Tablatures again... by raluc
Just confirming what has already been said: The ability to correctly note down the bass strings in French lute tablature would be great and very much appreciated!
I also noticed the problem with displaying rhythms but for now I have solved it by setting note values to 'stems and beams'. Works well!
All the best!
Kristo
I'm really sorry, but this post totally escaped me!
A few comments:
1) Voices do not really make sense in tablatures, at least typographically. The current implementation allows to properly display two voices (and might work with more) with tablature formats which allow such kind of information properly displayed. For historic tablatures, there is currently no alternative to enter the whole staff contents in a single staff (as historic tablatures themselves were notated).
2) Possible, maybe even no very complex to implement; the problem is mainly with the number of parameters in the tabl. staff property dlg box: it is already very crowded and adding more parameters will make things even more frightening for the user (please keep in mind that only a small minority of the users would understand what many of those parameters are about). Things can always be improved, though!
3) If I understand correctly, this is already possible via the standard Musescore template mechanism.
[4)] Implementation (or better not implementation yet) of open string notation in tablatures has been discussed here . It is planned, and will follow sooner or later, together with (a selection of) historic fingering indications.
Thanks for the comments,
m.
Meanwhile I've found a solution to put in as much bass notes as you want below the Tab. It's easy to do but it takes a lot of time and it isn't very satisfying at all - but it works!
I've just put in a systemtext where I typed a simple "a" for the 7th course and I pushed it6 under the Tab-system on its final position. Then I have chosen a font (Recercare for Fronimo) to make it looking a bit more similar to the other tab-characters. For the following low courses from 8 to 10 I just created a simple line which I have shortend changed into another angle and put close to the "a". Ready! For the basses from c urses 11-14 you can simply use the numbers 11,12, etc.
raluc
In reply to Bass notes in French Tab by raluc
Hello Raluc,
I am interested in this solution. Please, could you give us a step by step method (with screenshots if possible) to be able to reproduce as efficiently as possible. Thanks :-)
In reply to Bass notes in French Tab by raluc
Your solution can be (at least partially) streamlined, by defining a new text style (call it "French basses" or whatever you like), which the proper position, proper font and size and so on.
Enter the bass notes as staff text (NOT system text!): when you have a few (or all, as you prefer) of them, selected them (maybe with "Select similar in same staff") and assign to all of them the proper text style with a single command. For the lines, what about using '/' ?
The same can be done for Italian-style basses.
If you save the score as a template, you will find the same settings again in any score you make using that template.
Not perfect, but a decent solution meanwhile...
M.
In reply to Your solution can be (at by Miwarre
Hello Miwarre,
Thank you for your help. Very appreciated. However, I have difficulties with the English language, and by using a translator, I do not understand the method to be made, in particular, when you write:
"Enter the bass notes as staff text (NOT system text!): when you have a few (or all, as you prefer) of them, selected them (maybe with "Select similar in same staff") and assign to all of them the proper text style with a single command. For the lines, what about using '/' "
Please, do you would have the kindness the process with some screen shots. It would help me a lot. Thanks again.
@raluc: si vous lisez ce message, et le comprenez mieux que moi, merci d'intervenir sur le forum français, comme vous l'avez fait dernièrement. Cela m'a beaucoup aidé, et vous en suis reconnaissant. Merci.
In reply to Hello Miwarre,Thank you for by cadiz1
(This is the English forum, but we not integralists, aren't we?)
Il faudrait beaucoup de saisies d'ecran, donc j'essai une traduction française du passage cité (pière d'excuser mon orthographe...):
"Saisissez les notes des basses comme text de la portée (plutôt que comme text du système); une fois inseré un certain nombre de basses (ou toutes les basses,si vous preferez), selectionez-les (par example avec l'outil "Selectioner toutes les elements semblables de la même portée") et donnez leur le style que vous aviez defini précédemment.
Pour les lignes, ne ce serait-il plus simple d'utilizer le character '/', plutôt qu'une veritable ligne?".
M.
In reply to Your solution can be (at by Miwarre
Oops, after having written in french and iatlien I come back to english because we are in an english forum!
Thanks for your good ideas which are mostly easy to realize. I tried out the staff text and is more comfortable to work with.
The lines are causing a little problem: the font I use for the bass notes is taken from Fonimo, and unfortunately the lines don't work outside of Fronimo. But I'll have a look to the Django fonts which might be better for this. And another problem might be that if I use simple lines they will be shown at the left side of the character "a" (or "b") and not above, which, as long as I know, never has been written like this in original sources.
In reply to Bass notes in French Tab by raluc
@ raluc: Looking at your picture: in the last measure how can you reach the first fret in the 8th course ('/b')?
As far as I know, courses beyond the 6th are not fretted at all and, in French lute tablature, only 'a' occurs in the basses.
The only instrument in whose tablature basses you can have anything different from 'a' is the 7-string basse de viol; whose use is limited to a handful of years, as the use of tablatures for this instrument went out of fashion a few years after the addition of the 7th string.
Also, again as far as I know, the use of numbers in French tablature is not historic and I know of no example of it. Actually, I do not remember having seen more than 4 slashes ('////a'), regardless the number of courses of the lute being used.
For Italian tablatures, where numbers are used, the string number restarts with the first open string; so the 7th course is indicated with 1, the 8th with 2 and so on,
(Of course, there are other notations, which I wold prefer not to have to juggle with; for instance the notation which uses '0' on additional 'ledger lines', which is attested but is difficult to reproduce, as it takes a lot of vertical space and in historic sources is often used rather generically, with an '0' in a single 'ledger line' to indicate any open string (for an example, cfr. O. Vecchi, Canzonette a 3 voci, Venezia Gardano 1597) or the notation which uses, on a single ledger line, the number of the string, starting however from 0 (cfr. S. Verovio ed., Diletto spirituale, Roma Verovio 1586 or other Verovio's prints).
M.
In reply to About 'slashes' and numbers by Miwarre
Ciao Miwarre. Mille grazie per la tua risposta. Parlo anche un poco Italiano ma sfortunamente no ho abbastanza possibilità e prattica d'usare questa bella lingua qui in Germania e ho gia dimenticato la meta delle parole italiane che ho saputo anni fa. Dunque per farmi la communicazione piu facile ritorno alla lingua francese, che capici et scrivi bene.
Dans les tablatures pour luth baroque on trouve dans les sources allemandes plus ou moins souvent des notes qu'ils faut pousser au 1er fret sur les basses du 7-9 courses, et ils sont écrit d'habitude avec le charactère "b" (7ême cours) ou "b" avec un ou deux "slashes" pour les courses 8 et 9. Pour les basses 10 a 13 on a utilisée les chiffres 4, 5 et 6. Ça au moins une on trouve dans le pluspart des tablatures. Biensur il y'en avait mille autres variantes...
Mais tu as quand même raison pour les tablatures françaises j'en ai jamais vu l'usage du "b" pour les basses 7-11.