Question/Problem 1; measure width

• Aug 3, 2017 - 17:02

I have only recently moved to 2.x from 1.3. I use unsupported XP. I waited because of problems I had in 1.3 and was not sure things would be better. I want to say thanks for having accidentals work correctly in a measure, now I need to unlearn bad 1.3 habits.(I wish playback would work for octave skips) I have seen posts about measure widths, but my problem is a little different. When I start a new movement I can go 2-3 pages fine (20-30 meas.). Then the program starts stretching the measures to one measure per system! This will last for 2-6+ pages then I am back to more reasonable 3-4 measures per system. (Those first pages were 5-7 meas per system) After I complete a few measures I can use more/less stretch to make a more appropriate system fill per line. If I am not completly finished with a measure/system any addition spreads things back to one measure to the system. Any thoughts? Remember things are fine for 20-30 measures and I do not wish to mess with that. This is unsupported XP, so I know I am not looking for a fix. You all have more important work with 3.x. (this is the same thing that happened with 1.3. Thanks for any thoughts, it`s hard clicking 16`s that stretch all across the page.)


In reply to by Shoichi

Thanks for responding. Is what you are suggesting going to change the first 20 -30 measures? If so, this is not really helping. After a few pages things go more back to normal. I can usually get 3 or 4 meas per system. I am now in the 120 meas range and I am suddenly back to stretching out to 1 meas per system. One of the other replys thinks the meas is too full. I could put 4 sixteenths in between each sixteenth that is stretched out with 1 meas per system. Will line breaks suddenly show up on their own part way through a movement? Thanks for the thoughts!! (Sorry my system is not online so I can not send a score)

In reply to by R. L. F.

Line breaks do not automatically show up on your score. To see line breaks make sure that under the View menu Show Unprintable is checked. If there are no blue boxes at the top left of the measure there is no line break.

Is this on a single score or multiple scores? I suspect the former and the rhythms are being made up of shorter notes when the measures start stretching across the entire page. The first thing I would suggest is to enter scores in continuous view since page breaks at this point are irrelevant and my not be proper by the time the score is finished. After my score is entered, I will often switch to page view and select the entire score with ctrl-a and press { about ten times to remove all stretch from the measures. This way I will know the maximum measures that will fit on a system. I then start to enter linebreaks as necessary to make individual pages.

In reply to by mike320

Thanks for responding. Sorry it is multiple scores. Yes, there are shorter notes, but not always. I guess I do not see why either page view or continuous will affect meas length at various times in a score. I am now in the 120 meas range and am suddenly back to stretching to one meas per system. As my post said, after I complete,fully, several meas I can use less stretch to pull things back to a more normal 4-6 meas per system. I will look at your thoughts more carefully. I had similar(same) problem in 1.3vers. Thanks for the thoughts.

In reply to by R. L. F.

The purpose of using continuous view to enter the score is to prevent the current measure from jumping to the next page as you enter notes. It does nothing to prevent the measure from getting too wide. I think you are trying to worry too much about layout while you are entering the music. After the entire song is entered you can then go back and look at the layout to see if it is acceptable. You can change the paper size, measure stretch, note font sizes and so forth to change the widths of measures after the score is entered. There are a lot of settings that can be changed in the Style->General... dialog that will help prevent a single measure from being an entire system. I would suggest you worry about those settings after the score is entered. If you are writing original music, I would expect concerning yourself with measure width would be a hindrance to the creative process. If you are transcribing a score, it is unlikely you will be able make a multi instrument score look exactly like the original.

In reply to by R. L. F.

In general, if MuseScore is only putting one measure on a system, and you don't have an explicit line break on that measure, it is because one measure is all that can fit based on your current settings for staff size (in Layout / Page Settings) and music spacing (in Style / General / Measure). As mentioned, if you believe you are seeing a case where this isn't true, you would need to find a way to attach the score. If the computer isn't online, you could maybe copy it to a flash drive and then post from a computer that *is* online.

In reply to by R. L. F.

Staff size and music spacing settings don't change - they are pervasive for a score. but streetch settings can *override* the music spacing for some particular measures. It's possible you have very wide music spacing settings so new measures you add are wide, but you'd reduced stretch in measures 20-30 so those measures are narrower. Again, unless you attach the score - or even just a subject of it - all we can do is guess., It won't be a very efficient way of solving your problem. It might take many days of back and forth guessing before we hit on the solution. Where if you manage to attach the relevant portion of your score, I pretty much guarantee a solution will be posted within the hour. Your choice :-)

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

OK Marc
I do not know if this will work, but I am trying to send the beginning of the next movement. Things are already starting to expand as I hope you can see. Remember XP MS 2.1 I do not change any of the settings, as the work is fine at first and I do not wish to lose how the work begins and I am not interested in playing guessing games with settings I am not familiar with. On page one I 'less stretched' to clear the beaming of 1/8 notes across bar line, but I do not remember doing anything else.(do not hold me to that, though) Are the measures on the page with systems of 3 meas, 2 meas, one meas really all that will fit on the system. This shows exactly what I am describing. I hope the file gets to you. Please Marc, do not waste time on this. I know you have more important things! I can continue to 'more stretch' when the system keeps stretching to one meas. It is just awkward. Thanks for any thoughts.

Attachment Size
IV. Canonic.mscz 27.22 KB

In reply to by R. L. F.

I'm not sure what document you started from, but nearly all measure in that score have some (rather extreme) stretch settings.
What I did was select all by pressing Ctrl+A. Then I went to LayoutReset Stretch. Et voila, your 7 page score now became a normalsized 4 page score.

Do not change stretch settings of measures before you've entered all your notes into them; MuseScore does quite a decent job at making measures the correct with by default, depending on the contents of the width.
If for some reason you want fewer measures on a row, rather than using stretch (especially on empty measures); put in line-breaks. Once again MuseScore will then automatically adjust the stretch of the measures; but without going into crazy land as soon as you start filling out those measures with real content.

In reply to by jeetee

Thanks jeetee

Marc sent practically the same message. My only problem with both is I DO NOT add stretch!! Less stretch yes, you see why. I have simply been clicking in notes. As I started placing notes in those measures they simply keep stretching. After I completly finish a meas I will less stretch to bring it back in line. If I had been adding stretch I would not have posted. I will start using cont A and see if that does anything. Thanks for the thoughts!

In reply to by R. L. F.

Indeed, it looks like your use of stretch is the cause of the problem. It seems in your experimentation you inadvertently added tons of unnecessary stretch and that's why things don't fit.

Measure 21 in particular was stretched 22 notches above the default - no wonder nothing else could fit on that line! To see the stretch applied to any given measure, right click it and go to Measure Properties. All measures start out at 1.0. Each press of "{" or "}" with the measure selected decrease/increases that value by 0.1. Measure 21 was at 3.2, whereas you shoyld probably never be outside the range of 0.5 - 1.5.

Really, you should not having to mess with stretch very often at all. If you find yourself doing this more more than very occasionally, chances are you are doing something wrong. Like increasing stretch where you should be adding line breaks, or decreasing it where you'd be better off switching to a smaller staff size or tighter music spacing globally. And normally, any changes to stretch should be for all the measures you wish to fit on a line, not for measures individually - otherwise you end up with inconsistent spacing within a line. Also, you should virtually never be increasing or decreasing stretch for individual measures - it should normally be for ranges of measures that you want to fit together. Otherwise the measure spacing will be uneven. Basically, the default spacing from MuseScore is generally very good and in accordance with standard engraving practice most of the time, and most people are better off leaving it alone. At most, you should be considering consider adding line breaks to force one or two measures more on a system, or reducing stretch across the whole line to get one or two measures fewer on a system, and if you're doing this for most than half the systems, you should instead be considering making global changes.

As it is, indeed, Ctrl+A then Layout / Reset Stretch is the way to put this score back how it should be.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Marc thanks for responding

Jeetee had about the same comments. My only problem for both is I DO NOT add stretch. Less stretch, yes, you see why. I simply click in notes. (sorry I do not have the score here) If whatever the meas you mentioned is the one per system, as I click in notes it just keeps stretching. Same for the system before and the next system after. I stopped adding notes when I realized this would be a score to try and send, or else it would have also continued stretching and fill the system. You say the one meas was more stretched, are the following meas also that way. If so why? I had not even gotten to them. Why would I be adding stretch to meas I had not gotten to, yet, if you truly think I am adding it. Why would I add stretch 22 times? Sorry, Marc, but this just does not make sense. I am sorry I forget to say I had similar situation when using MS 1.3. As I told teejee I will try the cont. A and see if that helps. Thanks for looking into this and see if any of the following meas are also stretched.

In reply to by R. L. F.

You might not have intended to increase stretch, but somehow, inadvertently, that is what happened. You can see for yourself by right-clicking the measure in question and going to Measure Properties. And yes, lots of other measures have stretch applied - some just a little, others a lot. You can see this for yourself the same way. You can also see for yourself doing Ctrl+A to select all and then Layout / Reset Stretch, which correct things instantly. Note: it isn't the Ctrl+A that resets things - that merely selects all. After that you need to do Layout / Reset Stretch or nothing will happen.

I don't know what you mean when you say you hadn't gotten to measure 21 yet - it's full of notes. So obviously you - or someone else - did get to this measure. Here is what I see:


There are notes in some of the following measures as well, and they are also severely stretched. As are the empty measures that follow.

Probably at some point you started experimenting with the stretch settings and accidentally pressed "}" when you meant to press "{", with the empty measures selected. Or maybe your cat came in and walked across the keyboard while you were getting coffee :-). Anyhow, regardless of what happened in the past to cause it, the fix is exactly as we said: select all, reset stretch.

And in the future, again, do not get in the habit of playing with stretch until the very end, after entering all notes for your entire score, and then do so only in limited amounts, because the default choices made are usually going to be optimum already most of the time.

Attachment Size
stretch.png 66.4 KB

Not sure what you mean about playback working for octave skips. If you are having some sort of problem with octaves, please attach your score and give steps to reproduce the problem. Someone should be able to tell you how to do whatever it is you are wanting to do.

As for the measure widths, here too attaching your score would help, otherwise we can only guess. But that said, my guess is either the measures are simply too full to fit more of them on a line, or else there is a line break there that you need to remove.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanks for you response. I am sorry I was not clear. If I enter F# then skip an octave up, the look is fine, but the note sounds F nat., not F# in playback. Hope this clears my comment. As I said in my post, I am using unsupported XP so I am not looking for a fix, but if it was not something anyone had noticed I wanted to mention it. As for meas widths, I can put 4 sixteenths in between each sixteenth(easy) in one of the stretched meas., no the meas is not too full. Would a line break show up on its own 2 or 3 pages in ? I do not add them. I am now in the 120 meas range and suddenly I am back to 1 meas per system after several pages at a more reasonable 3 or 4 meas per system.
Sorry, my system is not online, so I could not send a score even if I wanted, which I do not. I assume this must be something with XP. I had the same problem with 1.3 vers. If noone else reports this happening this would be my guess. As I said in my post I was looking for any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks for your comments.

In reply to by R. L. F.

If you enter F# then hit Ctrl+Up, you should get an F#. Works for me, and nothing about XP should prevent this from working.

To be sure we are talking about the same thing, try the following:

1) create a new score in C major
2) in the first measure, go to note input mode
3) type F Up to enter an F#
4) hit Ctrl+Up to move it up an octave

You should still have an F#, both on screen and in playback. If not, then something is definitely very wrong. But my guess is, this will work for you just as it does for me, and that you are talking about something else. In which case, please give us precise step by step instructions to reproduce the problem you are perceiving, just as I gave you precise step by step instructions to show you what *does* work.

In reply to by R. L. F.

As far as as the octave skip not working properly. I guess you are entering both notes in the same measure. You enter F#, then press F then ctrl-up arrow to move it up an octave and either the # is in the key signature or displayed next to the note as expected? Since your system is not online I guess you are using the default sound font rather than one you downloaded somewhere else. Have you noticed this in multiple instruments or one specific instrument? What is the name of the sound font you are using? You can find this by viewing the synthesizer box from the view menu and clicking the Fluid tab. If there is more than one listed, please list all of the sound fonts you have loaded.

To all
Thanks for your thoughts. About the octave skip, my apologies. After further study, what I have practiced for decades is not common practice. There is no problem! As for my stretching measures, with all your suggestions I consider things done. I will try some of the suggestions to see if anything changes. But, none of your thoughts deals with the change that happens 20-30 meas in, then starts stretching, then goes back 60-70 meas later and then starts stretching 30-40 meas later, again and I have not touched any of the settings. They are the same as when I started the movement. I will be off line for at least a couple weeks , so do not expect any posts. Thanks again.

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