adding voice 2 disabled by tie at end of measure - is this a bug

• Jan 23, 2018 - 19:35

In the attached file, I entered voice 1 first. It included a tie between the low F at the end of meas 19 and the F in meas 20. At meas 20 when I clicked on ANY of the voices 2 to 4, no action resulted. Workaround: I removed the tie and was able to enter voice 2 (which converted itself automatically to voice 1) . By the way this "auto-transform feature" happens every time I try to add a voice. Any idea why that is ?

Attachment Size
Manha_de_carnaval gtr solo.mscz 34.41 KB


I do not really understand what you mean for measure 20. If I select this measure, then press "N" (note edit mode), I can select the voices 1 to 4 as expected.
On the other hand, looking at your score, I see a lot of confusion and disorder (sorry) in the way of inputing the notes in their different voices.
For maximum musical understanding (and efficiency to not have to change the direction of the stems), just think - especially in this piece - to choose the voice 1 for the upper part, and always the voice 1 (the melody, to say it quickly), voice 2 for accompaniment, and always voice 2, and voice 4 for the bass line, and always voice 4.
Eg: voix1.jpg
Two-thirds (personal estimation!) of the guitar repertoire is written with these three voices. The voice 3 may be very useful, too, but in this file, it's unuseful and so, everything is mixed without any coherence. First try to clearly define the bass and the top. Then, the intermediate part will impose itself.

In reply to by cadiz1

Yes as you have justly alluded yourself the tone your reply is a little harsh. Pointing at the errors of a learner is not that effective. The info you provide however is good and some of it in my opinion should be in the manual. For instance It is important to know that bass line cannot be the first voice. In this exercise, it is useful to be able switch N entry to no N entry modes, particularly in order to modify the duration of the notes. Thanks again.

In reply to by jsn001

cadiz1 seems to be a very talented musician (I haven't heard him play) with much experience in multiple voice music on several string instruments. English is also not his first language. From my experience, people speaking a language other than their native tongue tend to be a bit direct, so please don't let him offend you.

In you other reply, you have indicated you are learning. If I were you, I would carefully consider what he had to say and take it as a valuable lesson that you have received for free. I follow the French forum to learn from him.

The MuseScore manual is not a music theory book, but rather instructions on how to use a program. You, as you have proved with your score, have the freedom to use it as you please. It allows you the freedom to notate your music in a variety of ways. It also gives you the ability to combine features and make nearly any notation in western music. There are few concrete rules in notating music. For example, I have had to resort to tying notes in voice 1 to notes in voice 2 myself, though I do my best to avoid this. The voice 1, 2 and 3 system cadiz indicated is A way to help you to keep the different lines of music coherent. With enough extra work you could make yours look the same way as his.

I do realize the music lesson is a bit off topic, but please consider what I have said and take it as encouragement rather than a negative.

The answer to the original question is that no tied notes can have their voices changed by selecting it and pressing something that changes the voice. This has been pointed out and hopefully will be fixed in a future release. I don't know if it should be called a bug or a feature, but that's the way it works right now. In the case of ties in other than voice 1, it is best to enter the notes then the tie. To tie from one voice to another click one note, then ctrl+click the other note and press + to add the tie. The second note may also add a tie to some later note (even several measures later) if one exists in the same voice. Just delete the extra tie.

Generally, if you need to tie a note in one voice to a note in another cadiz1 is correct, you really need to rethink how you entered your notes.

In reply to by mike320

Limitations of written word: i have not been understood. Adding a second voice was not possible because of the pre-existing tie in voice 1. Point # 2: i did not want to change the voice it changed by itself. First removing the tie was the only way i could enter a second voice. Thanks.

In reply to by jsn001

Point #2: I don't understand what happened. It doesn't make sense that voice 2 was made by itself. The only thing I can think of is that you were entering voice 2 in measure 19 then entered the F in measure 20 without changing voices since you have no other notes in measure 20.

One thing that might also help, you have the lower line of music entered into voice 1 starting in measure 21. You can change all of them to voice 2 by selecting the measures and using Edit->Voices->Exhange voices 1-2. You will then be able to enter the upper line of music into voice 1 and the stems will default to the correct direction.

In reply to by jsn001

In order to help you better, please explain more exactly what you are trying to do. When I look at measure 20, I see a single half note in voice 2 and a single half rest in voice 1. What precisely are you trying to do?

In general, content in voice 1 does not in any way affect your ability to enter music into voice 2. Simply select voice 2 and start entering notes. Be sure to read the Handbook sections on "Note input" and "Voices" - it's possible you have been misunderstanding something about the process. Again, though, if you describe in more detail what you are having trouble with, we can certainly guide you!

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you Marc for your kind reply. I learned from other responses that I had to enter bass line as voice 4 and modify my notes entry method. I followed these instructions for the other pieces I am working on.

The tie issue is pretty much resolves. However, for the record, this is what I had done :
Enter bass line as voice 1 (after reading the manual, I guess I had not paid attention...).
What happened : after the bass line was entered for the whole piece when I got measure 20 and tried to enter the top line, entering any other voices was disabled.
After I removed the tie on the low F, I was able to enter the entire piece as I wished.
Being a new user / learner of this software I realize that there is a lot to learn; the manual is excellent; with that, a few clarifying details might be added here and there.

For example (on a separate topic):
How can we tell the program that we want so many staves per page?
Current problem: chord symbols, system text or fingering notations crowd high range notes.
What I did : I looked in layout > page settings and also in style > general > system & measures and did not see a way to do this asides form playing with the options in layout > page settings.

In addition the software also appears to engage in a few "unstable behaviors" which take a while to get used to.

For instance:
a) as I enter notes, the size of the page view sometimes automatically shifts from 100% to 800%;
b) and / or the page shifts all the way to the top left;
c) or the page view spontaneously shifts to continuous view.
d) even after I follow the advice given above regarding the proper order of notes entry, the stems do not necessarily point upward for the first voice.
e) in the part (and all other 4 parts) for Celebration attached keying "M" only allowed for 7 measures ( I wanted 8) at the beginning. Here too, I followed the manual's and forum instructions to the T.
What I did in this instance to find a workaround:
I removed the double bar, added measures; no matter what, I would only get 7 measures.

Looking forward for your feedback and, perhaps one day participate in other ways, become an active additional helper to others, because truly, it is wonderful to contemplate the prospect of soon be able to print my own compositions and arrangements.

If communicating verbally over the phone is easier, rather than typing long replies, I'm open to a phone conversation. In person talk is often faster and more effective in my experience. Thanks again. JSN

In reply to by jsn001

First, for the record, you don't "have* to put bass in voice 4, but the default stem directions are 1 & 3 up, 2 & 4 down, so the bass part would normally go into 2 or 4 or some combination. Really, where possible to notate with only 2 voices, I'd use 1 & 2 only. Just be sure to use 1 or 3 for upstem parts, 2 & 4 for downstem, and in any (should be exceedingly rare) cases where you need three parts with stems in the same direction, flip them manually by pressing "X".

As for multimeasure rests - double bars do indeed break them as required by the standards of music notation. Ditto with rehearsal marks, key or time signature changes, tempo marks, repeats / DS / Segno / Coda, and other things performers need to see. So presumably that is why your measures are not combining where you expect. If you are still having trouble, attach your score in its current state and precise step by step instructions to reproduce the problem you are perceiving, and someone should be able to help.

As for zoom or page/continuous view changing, all I can think is you accidentally clicked one of those controls and then as you started typing it was interpreted as a command to those controls. Normally zoom and view stay fixed until l you change them; never seen or heard of otherwise.

MuseScore does not currently offer phone support, so the forums are the way to go for now. Realistically, it normally more efficient in the long run, since you can attach your score, multiple people can respond at their own pace, etc.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

"First, for the record, you don't "have to put bass in voice 4, but the default stem directions are 1 & 3 up, 2 & 4 down, so the bass part would normally go into 2 or 4 or some combination. Really, where possible to notate with only 2 voices, I'd use 1 & 2 only"
Marc, I agree if a score contains only 2 voices: so voice 1 and voice 2 for the bass. But for the attached file in the first message, I disagree, it is obviously for 3 voices, so bass in voice 4 ( combinations don't help to clarify the voicing)

In reply to by jsn001

d) If you only have voice 1 notes in your score, the stems on the low notes will point up and the high notes will point down. When you start entering notes in another voice, the stems will point in the directions described by Marc. This is on a measure by measure basis.

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