Invisible 2nd voice issues

• Dec 1, 2018 - 23:58

A lot of us use invisible second voice to get around some playback issues. I've been using it because I actually have Timpani rolls on my sf2, but I have to switch octaves to get to it, so I make first voice correct notation, 2nd voice correct playback.

Anyway, I just added timpani to my score, and using second voice this way is a bit messed up. First and easiest issue, ornament's auto -place doesn't ignore invisible notes:

I've also noted that auto place doesn't ignore invisible dynamics. If it's invisible, auto-place shouldn't be adjusting to it.

Second, when I delete the first of those second voice notes from that measure, it doesn't leave a visible rest behind. My inspector tells me I've selected a rest, but I can't see it. On top of that, when I set the actually invisible rest's 'Visible' flag to off... the first voice rest doesn't go back to it's normal, no second voice position.



In reply to by Raymond Wicquart

I don't, and never have - extra staves are a pain to manage, and I'm beginning to the MS3 is worse at handling large scores than 2.3. I pretty much always deal with large scores, so adding to it is a bad idea.

They aren't too different instruments, anyway. It's just that the rolls are hidden in an octave timpani never actually uses

I'm not understanding the part about deleting the note. When I delete a voice 2 note, I get a normal rest. Can you post a sample score and precise step by step instructions to reproduce this problem?

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Oh, I mistyped - it's not second voice, it's third.

Delete the first two voice three notes in sample score. First and third rests overlap, which is fine. Go through each third voice note and rest, turning each invisible. First voice rests do not reset to their usual position, but stay high.

Really, the in-front rests ought to reset to normal position if the third voice rest is invisible, but it doesn't do it even if all are invisible.

Attachment Size
voice.mscz 4.99 KB

In reply to by Laurelin

Thanks, but that much I understood. What confused me was the statement "when I delete the first of those second voice notes from that measure, it doesn't leave a visible rest behind". This is what I am unable to reproduce. Now that I know you really meant voice 3, I guess what is really happening is, because voices 1 & 3 are both "up" voices, the rest for voice 3 simply disappeared behind the voice 1 rest, and that fooled you into thinking there was no visible rest left behind.

For the record, 2.x did not automatically readjust rests between voices 1 & 3 if one in invisible - only between voices 1 & 2. But it did reset everything in the bar if everything in voice 3 is made invisible, and that doesn't seem to be the case any more. Still works betwene vocies 1 & 2 though. I don't know if that change was deliberate or not.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Huh. Shouldn't resetting invisible rests be auto for any voice? I can't think of a case where I didn't want that to be true.

I'd still want only one copy of a rest before(or after) four voice divisi, if I ever used all four voices. And I'd want in the usual first voice spot.

Divisi rests are really only for when the rests are different between voices.

In reply to by Laurelin

It's considered proper to show all rests in polyphonic music (eg a fugue), so that even if two voices start with a quarter rest they should both be shown. But indeed, setting one invisible should be the way to get the other to reset. Not sure in what real world situations one would ever choose to use voices 1 & 3 rather than 1 & 2, so it's hard to guess what the expected behavior would be.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

You asked for a real world example and I happened to have one at my fingertips, so I responded. I manually adjusted the rest, but that's because there are notes on the same beat and is as expected. I made it look like I used voices 1 & 2, but as I said, it was easier to use voices 1 & 3 with a couple of minor tweaks to make it look good.

I agree with the OP, that voice 1 rests should move to their default position with the same rules as if there were no voice 3. I also think voice 4 should have it's measure rest default to the first ledger line below the staff. You said yourself that in a fugue it is often expected to have rests in the unused voices to help keep track of them. The current behavior is for voices 1 & 3 to be on top of one another and 2 & 4 on top of each other. When I've seen more than 2 voices on printed scores in the past, all unused voices had their individual measures rests visible. I personally do not have an abundance of situation where I use it, so I've manually and quietly moved the rests in the past. Also, it's tricky to select the rest MuseScore does not choose first when you click it. I usually resort to clicking another note/rest in the desired voice and use arrows to get to it.

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