Tempo marking size, note too small?
Hi everybody,
long time user but first post here. Thank you everybody for making such a great notation software!
I have the impression that the note bit in tempo markings is too small. I often end up enlarging the note part to 16-18 points to make it look right (to me).
I searched the forum but couldn't find any post about it.
What do you think, it's just my personal preference or is there a problem in the tempo (metronome) marking size?
Thanks!
Comments
I would like to see it larger.
In reply to I would like to see it… by xavierjazz
Like this?
Selecting (as in text processors) and using the text bar?
In reply to Like this? Selecting (as in… by Shoichi
Yes, exactly. That's what I do every time I add a metronome mark. I noticed different software give quite different results, and I'm not sure if there's a standard for this, but the note glyph in Musescore's default tempo mark feels like too small.
In reply to Yes, exactly. That's what I… by graphos
Create all default tempomarkings once in your score and edit their size as you want.
Use a custom workspace and add/replace the Tempo pallet with your resized markings.
See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/palettes#custom-palettes
In reply to Create all default… by jeetee
Hi, sorry to revive an old thread.
Thanks for the solution, it works. However, I just did a quick search (Finale, Sibelius, Dorico, Lilypond, and some Schott edition) and couldn't find any example where the note glyph is as small as the numeral.
Changing the glyph to size 20 seems to work almost perfectly. The bottom of the glyph is not perfectly aligned with the bottom of the numeral, but the notehead top is aligned with the equal sign (see picture). What about changing the defaults metronome mark glyphs size to 20, would that be a good suggestion?
In reply to Hi, sorry to revive an old… by graphos
Did you try to select it and use Inspector?
In reply to Did you try to select it and… by Shoichi
Yes, but it's not possible to align separately part of a text as the whole metronome mark (glyph, equal sign, and numeral) is made of a single text element. In other words I cannot offset only part of the mark.
In reply to Yes, but it's not possible… by graphos
Ctrl+T?
In reply to Ctrl+T? by Shoichi
Could you elaborate about Ctrl+T, I don't understand what you mean, thanks! Anyway also in your example the glyph is not perfectly bottom-aligned with the numeral. A small detail, I know, and already changing the size makes it much better than the default.
In reply to Could you elaborate about… by graphos
Ctrl+T to add text, Text toolbar to change size of individual elements. Just an escamotage.
In reply to Ctrl+T to add text, Text… by Shoichi
Ah yes, now I understand, thanks!
What I did at the end was to modify the default to my taste and add a small set of custom tempo markings to the tempo palette. Works well now for me but I suspect the defaults are problematic for new users.
In reply to Ah yes, now I understand,… by graphos
3 text elements, to adjust the positions. Image capture if useful to save the result, as for https://musescore.org/en/node/266325
In reply to 3 text elements, to adjust… by Shoichi
Thanks, that's useful, although it'll be quite a lot of work to keep the placement right if the layout changes. I think the best solution for me at the moment is to change the glyph size and accept the slight misalignment.
Thank you for your help!
In reply to Thanks, that's useful,… by graphos
You're welcome. Save as an image (in a custom palette) for further use.
I gather this is how the fonts were designed, but if so, I'd have designed them differently myself.
May I further add that it's not just the SIZE of the note graphic, but the PROPORTIONS of the components don't make it easy to tell FOR SURE what the note value is. Yes, you can increase the tempo text font size enough to make it clear, but that generates considerable wasted space between staffs (see attached example). That's important to me because I'm usually working with fake-book charts, where limiting the size to a single page is very desirable.
It would be terrific if, in association with normal maintenance, MuseScore could do a one-time redesign of all the tempo-marking graphics so that:
-- ALL strokes are thicker (i.e. bold-face), so that the flag for a quarter note would be CLEARLY visible.
-- The note head is taller and the note stem shorter, so that empty center of the half note head would be larger and easier to see.
-- The dot (if any) following the note is artificially enlarged, so it's always CLEARLY visible.
This might not matter to users who have flawless 20/20 vision, but it would be a great boon to those don't (which probably includes most people over 40 [g].
In reply to May I further add that it's… by MandyWh
The defaults are, I think, better in the coming 3.6 update:
In reply to The defaults are, I think,… by Marc Sabatella
Sorry, I don't agree entirely. The default is better for sizing of the note and stem - but much worse in positioning.
For some reason, the designer of the new defaults has chosen to move the entire note and stem downwards. This is contrary to almost all published music. Usually the bottom of the notehead aligns with the text baseline and the bottom of the bpm digits, while the stem rises well above the opening parenthesis. This baseline alignment ensures that the opening parenthesis goes below the bottom of the notehead.
Here is MS 3.5.2, with the font of "note and stem" manually increased from default 12pt to 18pt:
![Tempo mark in parentheses - MS 3.5.2.png]( "Tempo mark in parentheses - MS 3.5.2.png")
And here is the new 3.6.0 default in parentheses (without any manual adjustments):
![Tempo mark in parentheses - MS 3.6.0 RC.png]( "Tempo mark in parentheses - MS 3.6.0 RC.png")
It looks just plain awkward! Not the professional engraving look we hoped for...
See also the tempo examples in Gould's "Behind Bars" pp.183-184, where the bottom of the notehead does align with the bottom of the bpm digits (text baseline).
I know it is probably too late to fix this for 3.6, but please can this be sorted out before MS4?
In reply to Sorry, I don't agree… by DanielR
Issue created: #315245: New tempo mark in 3.6 has notehead placed too low
In reply to The defaults are, I think,… by Marc Sabatella
I'll personally be grateful for whatever can be done in the future to make tempo markings as LEGIBLE as possible without increasing the size (and thus the vertical space required). From your example, I'm not exactly sure what 3.6 will look like, but I hope for the best.
In reply to The defaults are, I think,… by Marc Sabatella
Could we get a larger proportion for Petaluma, as well?
In reply to Could we get a larger… by Tristan H
Petaluma is not our font, we get it from a third party. This would have to be requested of the folks at Steinberg.
In reply to Could we get a larger… by Tristan H
Report/request at https://github.com/steinbergmedia/petaluma/issues