Tremolo does not play with ppp
Tremolo plays fine in normal piano score, but it does not play if it is accompanied with ppp.
Also, the measure has a crescend from "ppp" to "ff", but it has no effect.
Neither "cresc..." nor "<" worked. The problem seems to be the combination of "ppp" and tremolo silencing the synthesizer, rather than the crescend not working.
I have tried this only with piano. I tried a few tricks, such as inserting invisible notes, which also did not play at all.
I am using:
OS: macOS High Sierra (10.13), Arch.: x86_64, MuseScore version (64-bit): 3.0.5.21343, revision: 58dd23d Mac Version.
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Comments
It works fine in 3.1-beta 2. Perhaps you need to turn up your volume, it's quite soft. And it my be the sound font.
In reply to It works fine in 3.1-beta 2… by mike320
As I said, I am using 3.0.5. I can check whether it is a version issue only when 3.1 is released for Mac. The piano volume is set at default (100) with the Mixer panel. With this volume, normal piano score played with ppp is audible. As you suggested, it seems it is still extremely faintly audible with tremolo, too. However, I cannot adjust the volume louder for the sake of this part, because all other ppp parts will then play too loud.
In reply to As I said, I am using 3.0.5… by yoichi123
It sounds as though this is a system and personal taste issue rather than a musescore issue then. Be aware, I'm not saying anything bad about your personal taste. I don't like my ff sections to shake my computer off my desk either. The purpose of such a notation is, in reality, to make it seem the sound comes from nowhere and I hear that effect when I notate this. At least as well as can be expected from a computer generated part.
There are two ways to improve this. Find a soundfont that allows the short tremolo notes to sound louder at ppp or adjust the volume of each note in the piano roll editor.
In reply to It sounds as though this is… by mike320
Thanks for giving me a hint to check piano roll to investigate what is happening. I haven't used it before, so your prompting was appropriate to make me to investigate what may be happening. However, you are mistaken a bit about the Mixer volume setting. It is true that ff playing too loud would be a big problem, but I didn't realise that would be a problem at that time. I was saying that inconsistency of ppp with/without tremolo. Both should play at the same volume and that gave me a doubt that something might not be right. I also wasn't familiar with sound font differences. By all means, I could do all those technical tweaking if I wanted to, but the main point is MuseScore's default behaviour, that should be just right for ordinary users. As it turns out that piano roll seems to be saying that ppp < ff crescend is in place on Bar 91 (see attached screen shot). However, the problem seems to be that the first note with pp velocity and the next note with the half velocity between ppp and ff (as the next note is ff in Bar 92) are still not audible, whereas the note in Bar 92 is ff (audible and seemingly the correct volume). As far as the piano roll goes, it seems MuseScore is doing correct, but the problem is elsewhere for the playback inconsistency between ppp and ppp+tremolo. As you pointed out, it could be a tremolo sound font issue. However, I am not going to investigate it at that fine-point level for now.
In reply to Thanks for giving me a hint… by yoichi123
That is fine. I wasn't aware of what you were willing to do to get a better playback. In cases like this, I usually resort to my imagination to "hear" what it sounds like because it's not worth the extra work for me to improve what MuseScore does. I'm focused on writing my music and the rest is a distraction. It seems you are of a similar mind.
In reply to That is fine. I wasn't aware… by mike320
Same here. I am glad that someone made MuseScore and made it available to us. I am happy to be reporting "oddities" in order to help it improve. I will wait for it to "catch up". Until then, I "imagine" that it is doing all right things, too.
In reply to As I said, I am using 3.0.5… by yoichi123
For the record, you don't have to wait for 3.1 to be released in order to test this, you can install the beta or a nightly build today.
In reply to For the record, you don't… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for the info. I presume that the code (build) is in a code repository? I haven't noticed the mention of it on MuseScore Web site, but I am going to check.
In reply to Thanks for the info. I… by yoichi123
Oops, I just saw the announcement for 3.1beta in the Download section, that wasn't there before. I downloaded it. By seeing the feature note: "single note now plays with crescend", I thought that that might be it. However, alas, it isn't it. It still does not play the ppp
In reply to Oops, I just saw the… by yoichi123
I suspect part of your problem is that in your picture you show the ppp and < above the bottom staff while the ff is below the top staff. The crescendo is not acknowledging that the dynamics apply to the same staves due to their different locations. Try applying the ff to the bottom staff and see if you get better results.
In reply to I suspect part of your… by mike320
For piano staves, that is not the case. If the top stave is ff and the bottom stave has no dynamics mark, the bottom plays automatically as ff, and vice versa. However, to prove the point, I have added ff to both top and bottom staves in Bar 92, as seen in the attached. That absolutely makes no improvement. Bar 91 is still not playing ppp properly when accompanied with tremolo. Without tremolo and crescend, it plays with the normal ppp volume. Piano roll also proves that the crescned and ff is supposed to be in effect even if only the top stave has ff on it in Bar 92, because it shows the effect of crescend from ppp to ff on the bottom stave from Bar 91 to Bar 92. I guess that the top and bottom staves could have different dynamics in some cases, but I haven't encountered such a situation so far. Since some piano pieces may be written to have different "voices" with different dynamics within a single stave, a capability to set a "voice" with a dynamics may be a wanted feature??? Or, is such an emphasis (e.g., only the main theme is played with emphasis within simultaneously played notes) meant to be achieved with piano rolls? I am not requesting such a feature but am just curious.
In reply to For piano staves, that is… by yoichi123
We can't really say much from just a picture. But my best guess absent the actual score,is that you simply neglected to set the range of the dynamic to "staff" using the Inspector, when adding the "ff" to the top but not bottom staff. Had you done that, it would have affected only that staff.
In reply to We can't really say much… by Marc Sabatella
I see. It is very good to know that I can use the "range" to have different dynamics to each stave with the Inspector. I wasn't aware of that, as my familiarity with MuseScore did not need to be that so far. However, that is not affecting my issue here at all. The situation is rather the other way around. Since the ff is not affecting one stave only on the piano score, the dynamics applied to both, and, as the result, the score should have played ppp with no problem. (This default behaviour is the one desired in most cases.) However, it does not play properly when it is with tremolo, ppp and crescend. Moreover, more generally, I am copying SATB+Piano score. If vocal staves are f and piano staves are p, for example, I set them separately per stave with just the dynamics on the palette, not with the "range" in Inspector. That makes it unnecessary to "set the range".
In reply to I see. It is very good to… by yoichi123
Ideally, yes, hairpins would pay attention to dynamics on other staves if they are set to affect the staff with the hairpin by default. But it doesn't work that way, you do need to attach dynamics to the same staff. You can set them invisible if you like, or use the range controls so they still have the effect you want. Or, forget all that and just set the velocity change on the hairpin manually. Lots of options here, and again, we'd be able to assist much better if you attach the actual score, not just a picture of it.
In reply to Ideally, yes, hairpins would… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks you for that. I will set dynamics to have effect on only staves range in normal part of score. It was only handy not having to set two dynamic marks for piano staves (double-stave) for most part. However, as you point it out, I will set dynamic marks separately to each of two staves and make one invisible where it rans out of space or not necessary to show two dynamic marking in proximity.Thanks again for your advices.
In reply to Thanks you for that. I will… by yoichi123
You should not need to do that. Normally it works just fine to put the dynamics - and hairpins - on the top staff only. The only time this does not work is if you need separately dynamics for the two staves. And if for whatever reason you do add a hairpin to the bottom staff, it needs to have its own dynamics to, or else, you can set the velocity change on the hairpin itself. Once again, seeing your actual scores, it's impossible for us to say what might be going on here. But under normal circumstances it should never be necessary add dynamics to staves separately unless you want them to have different dynamics.
In reply to You should not need to do… by Marc Sabatella
An excerpt of the score is attached, but the problem here is nothing to do with setting dynamics properly for two staves. Dynamic marks are only at the bottom stave, but it applies to the top stave as well, which is desired here. Dynamic marks are working fine as far as the piano roll implies. In the piano roll editor, The Velocity Absolute seems to be indicating that the crescend has been applied properly from ppp in Bar 2 to ff in Bar 3. So, it should play the ppp to ff with normal volume during the tremolo being played in Bar 2. However, the playing is not audible in Bar 2 (not the normal ppp volume, which is still audible) and ff is played all of sudden in Bar 3.