headers extend outside of page margin into score area

• Aug 10, 2019 - 21:21
Reported version
P2 - Medium
S5 - Suggestion

1) create a header

2) enter a rehearsal mark in the top staff of page 2+ that collides with the header

Some other kinds of text trigger automatic placement in this situation, but rehearsal marks do not.

Attachment Size
msforum_collision.mscz 2.95 KB


Title automatic placement doesn't fix collision between rehearsal mark and header headers extend outside of page margin into score area
Severity S4 - Minor S5 - Suggestion
Priority P2 - Medium

Your header is extending into the score area, because the offset for the header text style isn't set to move it into the margin. You;d neeed a sufficiently large negative offset to keep the header within the margin and outside the score area in order for autoplace to kick in and do what you want it to do. So. the question is, why isn't this default? Backwards compatibility, I guess?

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I'm confused. I thought the "margin" was, by definition, empty? I don't want headers or anything else to be moved there. I like the placement of the header, actually. I definitely wouldn't want it any higher up on the page, and certainly not for the purpose of avoiding collisions. I thought that's what automatic placement is for?

Note that in the score I posted automatic placement is kicking in when "System Text" is entered, but not when a "Reheasal Mark" is entered. All else aside, I don't understand why this should be.

No. The margin is the area outside of the score area, but it's a great place for headers & footers, to make sure they stay clear of the score. Because the header and footer are not considered score elements and are completely ignored by autoplace and other aspects of score layout. Autoplace is for score elements only and simply does not apply to headers or footers.

if you want the header where you have it but want the score to avoid it, then simply increase the top margin in Format / Style (as well as using a negative offset for your header).

Check again, you'll see rehearsal marks are no different staff text here. Delete your rehearsal mark and you'll see the staff text encroaching into the header just as surely as the rehearsal mark.

Ok, I see now, thanks.

You make the workaround sound so simple, but top-line collisions between staff/system text and header/title text are a constant problem in instrumental parts, and rarely can it be solved equitably using global margin/offset settings. Presumably something else is gained by not treating header/footer as score elements, but I can't imagine what that something is since they will inevitably end up competing for space with score elements from time to time.

All of this being as it is, I still would be strongly opposed to placing anything in any margin by default. Margins are great places for nothing, or else they're not margins. Are there any other elements that already work this way?

Headers and footers are the only elements I can think that are not considered ordinary score elements (notice you can't select them either, or edit them directly, etc). They are automatically generated for each page, which is what makes them unique.

The solution I gave is simple as far as I can tell - a couple of seconds in the style settings, hit "Apply to all Parts" if you've already generated them, done. Or am I missing something? Feel free to attach a file if you are seeing a problem with some specific score/part. The same thing applies to footers, which are placed in the margin by default, and I can't recall ever encountering a problem with this approach.

It’s possible you are confusing the title frame with the header? Those are two different things. The header definitely moves - left, right, and center - but the title frame does not.