Play repeats check box backwards.

• Nov 9, 2019 - 19:24

Is it possible the play repeats check box options are inverted. I have a score for Strauss' Roses from the South which I have entered. As with many of his compositions he has sections with two repeats. The second may have measures following the second volta on the repeat that act as the final ending of the section. noted as Schluss in German, appearing as a third volta. The voltas on the second repeat usually contain a Dal segno al fine where the fine may be in these extended measures or in other voltas. I have checked the play repeats box with the inspector on the D.S. al Fine and notice that while the repeats function as simple repeats first time through, during the D.S. pass none of the measures with voltas are played (volta1 and volta2 unmodified.) The measures following volta 2 of the second repeats containing the fine are played and the section terminates. Why are measures not playing when the box to play is checked. I expected to not check this box but when I leave unchecked which I thought meant don't play, the repeats during the D.S. pass play like standard repeats. Or do I not understand something? BTW I can not find an option that works where only the final volta is played on D.S. pass as noted in some of the documentation.


In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

I am attaching a score extracted from the entire piece. It is the entire No. 1 section with two repeats along with a few measures from previous intro section and a few in the following No. 2. section so that entry and exit from the number 1 section is played as it would in playing entire piece. In the D.S. al fine none of the Voltas play and the measures in the repeat before the voltas play through once and there is no repetition of these measures along with the silent voltas. D.S. al fine is checked to play repeats.

Attachment Size
Roses_From_the_South_Extract.mscz 36.04 KB

In reply to by msokol

a) you really don't want a D.S al FIne, but a plain D.S., as the Fine is after the D.S. Or even a D.C.: (which works fine with Section breaks, and no Segno needed then either)
b) you don't need that last volta, but if so surly not with a repeatlist of 3

c) It doesn't work, no idea why, the repeats are indeed not taken.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

The jumps are notated per the source I am copying so either Johann Strauss or his editor. As for D.C. vs. D.S I have seen a situation where a D.C. did not work but a D.S. did (concerging the repeats) . In this situation I believe the measure count did not reset when going back to a segno on the measure beginning the repeat. With the D.C. going ahead of the begin repeat measure I think the numbering restarted so when testing for numbers in a volta, the different jumps had different effects. Obviously I do not know how Musescore tracks measure counts and internal coding. Not sure I can find this to send an example.

In reply to by msokol

Repeats, voltas and jumps (dc&ds) are a complex relationship. If one setting is wrong then you can get unexpected results. Any time you run into problems you can ask here and someone will be happy to take a look and explain how to make it work right.

In reply to by msokol

  1. You don't need the last Volta-line ("Schluss/Closing" section), delete it. // maybe it affects repeat list. Therefore, do not use unless necessary. use a "Rehearsal Mark" or another text here instead.
  2. Just use the "DS al coda" repetition. The use of the "Fine" doesn't work (ans useless) for measures that after the "DS al Fine" sign.
  3. put "to Coda" sign before the first volta to jump to the "Closing" section.
  4. Of course I put the "Coda" sign on the "Closing" section (this is your old third volta) //I added a measure before the last part. That measure won't be played anyway. You can also add a frame here instead of a measure.

  5. In the 2. section, the upper staff had 2 flats and the lower staff had 1 flats?; I deleted it too. // I think neither the Father (Strauss) nor his Son didn't used this type of double Key-Signatures.

If my guess is right: I think your desired traffic (road map) can be as follows (see attachment)
PS: I shortened the piece for make it easy to follow and testing.

Attachment Size
Roses_From_the_South_Shortened.mscz 32.37 KB

In reply to by Ziya Mete Demircan

Thanks. I will review your suggestions when I have some time. The key signatures were just typos... I did not proof . As I noted to Jojo-Schmitz, I wanted the score to look like the original as far as instructions. So the issue is playback being very restrictive in setting it up. Not sure one can add graphic only markings so the score looks "original" and unlike notes that can be marked to not play, can't do it for voltas or jump instructions. So it is possible to get playback one needs to redo the composer's markings. I am not a musician so perhaps I do understand all the fine points of scoring such as the Schluss being written as a Volta. I understand the intent is this is to be played only on a jump, but is it truly a volta as are the first and second endings since it is not really part of the repeat. But you need some way to make Musescore only play it on the jump and not after the normal repeats and a volta with value of 3 works. Anyhow, if I still have questions after reviewing your score, I will repost. Thanks again.

In reply to by Ziya Mete Demircan

Yes it all works. BTW, I did not insert the extra measure and it worked. I suspect you did this to make it more readable. I think I also understand your comment about D.S. al fine where the fine is after the jump instruction. Mr. jojo-schmitz suggested just to use D.S. with out the al fine. I did this in another section and essentially the entire section is repeated from the segno to the very last measure which is a 2nd volta on the final repeat. This is marked fine but the label is not required as this is the normal termination of the section (2nd repeats played when instruction is marked to not play repeats.)

In reply to by msokol

Yes true; I did the extra measure in terms of readability.

The limits of the DS are between the DS and the Segno ($) sign.
This means that the "DS al Fine" repetition means: Play again from the "$" sign, but finish in the "Fine" mark token.

This requires that the "Fine" mark be placed somewhere between "DS al Fine" and "$" sign.

If the end of the work is to be after the "DS al Fine" sign, it cannot tell where the work ends. Because the continuation of the work is beyond its limits. And instead of "DS al Fine" it becomes just "DS".

In classical works, these repetition marks were often used to return from the end of the piece to the beginning or to an intermediate section (usually the part after the Introduction, Trio, or Fuge section).
If there is a "Coda" sign, it will be jumped to the "Coda" mark (section) and finished, or if there is a "Fine" mark, the piece would end up there.
Nowadays, we see that many Segno and/or DC's are scattered here and there in the musical piece.

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