Disable mouse input after entering note via keyboard

• May 2, 2020 - 20:01

Hi, every time I enter a note with my keyboard the mouse instantly becomes active as a note entry tool. Without exception I then have to click or type N to make it useable as a mouse again. I know I can use the arrows to navigate, but the mouse has many more functions and I literally never use it to enter notes.
Doesn't seem like a big deal until the fiftieth time of grabbing the mouse only to find it does nothing but enter notes!
How do I turn this function off please?

Comments

• May 2, 2020 - 20:52

You don't, not currently, but I'm wondering, what exactly is it you are trying to do with the mouse? You mention navigation, but the mouse is actually practically essential for - the scroll wheel (or two-finger swipe on a touch device) is by far the best way to scroll around while entering notes.

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• Feb 12, 2022 - 04:38

Hello, I'm having the same issue as the original poster -- I find it most convenient to use the mouse to click/drag navigate around the score, and the keyboard to enter note letters and adjust durations. Because of this, I find that I'm repeatedly having to hit 'esc' to disable the mouse entry mode, and if I forget to hit 'esc' I either add new notes or accidentally shift the ones I already placed with the keyboard. I'd like to add my voice to those requesting a new feature that allows you to disable the mouse entry mode. Are there any plans for making this available?
Also, I just wanted to say thank you to the developers for your work on the musescore project, and for making this really fine software available to us. It's the best I've used. Thank you

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• Mar 12, 2022 - 02:27

I think so too! I feel like using only the keyboard to input is much more convenient, however it just jumps back automatically to the mouse note input mode... I would also love to see an option to permanently just turn this function off as it is slightly annoying

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• Dec 13, 2022 - 01:36

Drumset input mode is lost.
I think it is a bug.

Steps:
When I am in Drumset Input mode,
if I press the Esc key,
it goes into Normal mode.
Then, when I double click a symbol to go into Edit mode,
The app goes into Edit mode,
Result: There's no longer a way to get into Drumset Input Mode.
Expected: Display the bottom drum keys window.

Why can't I go into input mode:
The Note Input button is disabled. Also if I press "N", it doesn't go into Input mode, it is not available.

So, I have to go back into Normal mode,
then press N to go into Drumset Input Mode.

So, the app has 3 modes:
1- Normal (view) mode
2- Edit mode
3- Input mode

I'd rather have only 2 modes, View and Input/Edit.

Hope I explained myself.

Can record a video if it helps.

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• Dec 13, 2022 - 08:51

Edit mode is something entirely different and not related to note input at all. It allows you to visually displace elements without changing their logical appearance. Or in the case of text elements it allows you to type in them.

There has been some work to allow some of these things (position) under normal mode, without requiring the (ancient) edit mode.

But none of that seems to be in relation to what this topic was about, namely that if you are in note input mode some users would like to be in note input mode only for the keyboard and not for the mouse (so kind of "hybrid" mode I guess?).
The main reason so far from the ones requesting this, is mostly because they're using their mouse to drag the score view around (something imho that should simply go) instead of using actual scroll commands (such as the scroll wheel or two-fingered-swipes).

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• Dec 13, 2022 - 14:25

I think there is some confusion here. Nothing has been lost at all. It's always been the case that there are more than two modes, because it has always been - and always will be - the case that there are more than two things you might want to do in a score. Use note input mode for entering notes, use edit mode for editing text or fine-tuning the positioning of those elements for which the cursor keys would normally just be for navigation. Nothing has changed in many years here. As long as I can recall, if you decide to go into edit mode for whatever reason, you need to leave it to do other things. And it would be most unfortunate if pressing "N" would actually switch you to note input mode rather than actually allow you to type an "N" while editing text!

Anyhow, as mentioned, this isn't really at all related to the discussion at hand, It's possible that further refinements to which elements require edit mode in order to move with the keys may happen. But I can't imagine a world in which the left and right cursor keys started moving notes horizontally instead of navigating your score - there will probably always be a separate mode for things like that.

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• Feb 5, 2024 - 15:00

Hi. The discussion strayed from the topic and the original question never got answered. I too would like to be able to enter a note with the keyboard and NOT have the mouse immediately become a note input device as opposed to a navigation device. I too find myself pressing ESC a million times so that I can use the mouse to navigate around the score.
On the other hand, If I enter a note with the mouse, it's only logical for the mouse to then become the note input device. I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't see why the entire application has to go into Note Input mode when I use the keyboard to enter a note.
So I too would like to be able to separate the mouse and the keyboard as note input devices.
Thanks.

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• Feb 5, 2024 - 23:14

You don’t need to leave note input mode or disable the mouse in order to navigate. The scroll wheel - with or without Shift - is usually the simplest way to navigate by mouse, plus there are all the standard keyboard commands (cursor keys with or without Ctrl, PgUp/PgDn, etc).

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• Feb 7, 2024 - 06:55

Thanks for your reply! The problem for me is that I feel I need to be able to go to a specific insertion point, or else select a note or phrase, by clicking with the mouse. As far as I can see the scroll wheel lets you move the score around, but not move around in the score, if you see what I mean. I can see that there is definitely an adaptation curve for someone who's used to Word, Excel, etc.

It may be that I'll never be able to get used to the notion of two modes with different functions for the mouse in each mode. To me as a word-processor person (to give you my reactions from that point of view, for what they're worth), having two modes would be like having separate "text entry" and "text editing" modes in Word or Libre Office. It would be as if, after having selected one word and added Bold formatting, the next word would go bold if i typed the letter "b"; typing an "i" would make the current text Italic, etc. I would be in "text editing" mode just because I performed one text editing (as opposed to text entry) operation. And I would have to hit Esc to get back into "text entry" mode.

It's not that I don't see that entering notes with the mouse must be a lot easier and faster. It's just that my reflex is to move around to specific places with the mouse, whether I'm in the process of "entering notes" or "editing a score." To me those two concepts overlap too much to be seen as mutually exclusive. But it's a conceptual choice for which I'm sure there are good reasons.

I've been playing with the scroll function with the mouse wheel, though, and it's great. I'll keep working on my current little piece and see how it works for me. But at this point my feeling is that if I could simply turn off the use of the mouse for note entry and use it to place the cursor and select items it would make things a lot easier for me. OR, as someone requested in another thread on this specific subject (of which there are five or six), use the right mouse button to move the insertion point around and the left one to enter notes. Since the scroll wheel has a specific function, why not a specific function for the left and right buttons?

Thanks for listening!
Les

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• Feb 7, 2024 - 13:24

Hi. I assume you mean a Pull Request? In other words, can I program this myself? I'm not a programmer - unless VB counts.
However I am willing to write up a description of what such a feature would do. Is there a set of guidelines on how to write such a description?

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• Feb 7, 2024 - 17:52

I see that in his comment on ErlingIv's Issue (https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/21399) that Marc has left out what seems to me (and to others) the best solution: Just make the right (or left) mouse button usable for clicking (to move the insertion point) and leave the left (or right) for entering notes.
I should also point out that the title of that Issue should maybe not mention "disabling" the mouse. It's not a question of disabling the mouse, but simply of not enabling the note-input function for the mouse when a note is entered via keyboard. Speaking for myself only of course.

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• Feb 7, 2024 - 21:55

I guess my years of relational database-modeling plus SQL and Fortran programming is rather obsolete in this context!
My optimistic view is that good design gives a dynamic and robust platform for adopting and implementing changes, ideas and requests.
But if N (note input) is "hard-coded" to trigger both keyboard AND mouse input, I see the problem.

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• Feb 8, 2024 - 13:44

It's not that there is anything particularly hard about implementing a change once a comprehensive design for exactly how the new feature should work is agreed upon. So far there is no such consensus at all - no description or mockups showing any proposed new settings, no description of the exact behavior of each mouse button in each different scenario, no analysis on the impact to existing efficient workflows, etc. Just a kind of vague notion that sometimes in some unspecified cases, some people might want the mouse to not enter notes, or maybe to not drag the canvas, or maybe both.

In the GitHub issue I gave a very loose description of the possible designs to alleviate this, and talked about complications with each. Before anyone starts implementation, there would need to be consensus on which of these four approaches to take - or if another should be taken instead - and then work through the issues identified to come up with more than just a broad description of the new behavior but an actual design detailing the specifics.

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• Feb 8, 2024 - 20:59

Well, a simple and easy describable approach would be to simply allow for disabling mouse for note input.
No more, no less. Let the mouse be a menu-selection/scroll/pointing device and leave it with that.
From what I understand from this discussion that would cover a lot. As for me who never uses the mouse for note input it would cover all.

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• Feb 8, 2024 - 22:59

That's not what I said. I was responding to your previous message, which did not contain the word "option" at all but simply said "no more, no less". So I took the comment at face value. If you want to propose an option, you'd still need to provide a description of exactly how that would work. But you'd also want to address the valid points I raised with that type of approach when I summarized it in the GitHub issue.

It's important that people to listen to and address each others' concerns and arrive at a consensus that addresses everyone's needs. Right now I'm quite skeptical of the option for the reason I already explained, and I think there are better options that would meet all needs better. I'd encourage discussion of those.

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• Feb 8, 2024 - 23:33

I said harmless, and also that I think it's a bad idea, for reason I stated quite explicitly. The fact that no one here seems to want to address these valid concerns is quite troubling and doesn't speak well to the possibility of reaching consensus or to people's seriousness about wanting to actually see any of this happen.

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• Feb 11, 2024 - 02:47

I gave explicit reasons, but it seems clear no one wants to discuss them, or the better alternatives I suggested. Too bad, because there are good ideas here, and I'd like to see something implemented. But I fear it's not going to happen until people are willing to discuss these things rationally. Maybe some other time in some other thread, and then some progress might actually start to happen. Meanwhile, I'll leave you all to it...

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• Feb 11, 2024 - 16:18

I'll start another thread. I very much want to discuss your suggestions. This thread is about disabling mouse note input, and I see no reason for disabling anything. To me the only problem is that entering a note from the alphanumeric keyboard automatically changes the function of the mouse. The mouse is too important as a pointing/cursor placement tool for it to become a note-entry tool unless one really wants it to be.
Meanwhile I wish you'd read my comments of 9 Feb. on your GitHub comment.

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 06:44

Hello Marc. Your proposal no. 2 in the comments on ErlingIv's Issue reads:

"2 - An optional setting in preferences that simply disables note input by mouse, period"

But no one is asking for the mouse to be disabled for note input! All I am asking (and I think I speak for others) is for the mouse not to automatically change functions to Note Input if a note is entered via the alphanumeric keyboard.

I just realized that there's an inconsistency regarding this: If I show the onscreen piano keyboard and play a C, no note is inserted. I have to manually switch to Note Input Mode in order to start entering notes with the piano keyboard. I don't have one plugged in just now, but I assume this is true for a a MIDI keyboard too. BUT if I press the letter "C" on the alphanumeric keyboard, a "C" immediately gets inserted and the mouse and piano keyboard automatically switch to Note Input mode. All we're asking is for this to apply to the alphanumeric keyboard as well.

Having said that, your no. 4:
"4 - A change to the default behavior so that a click anywhere other than in the current measure does not get interpreted as a note input command but rather as a simple cursor position change"
would be fine.

By the way, if there's a description of the concept of the use of two modes, Note Input and Normal, somewhere I'd love to see it if you could point me to it.

Thanks for listening!
Les

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 06:54

Lestrad, actually yes disabling mouse for note input is exactly what some of us, myself included, are asking.
That would be perfect for us keyboard users.
The rest of this thread is complex discussion on how you can have in some ways your cake and ate it and have some kind of magic mode where when you click with the foot in less than 2 seconds it does note input but if you click with your left hand behind the back it doesn't.
That would lead to a terribly complex user experience that would fully satisfy nobody.

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 07:58

"Lestrad, actually yes disabling mouse for note input is exactly what some of us, myself included, are asking.
That would be perfect for us keyboard users. [...]"

Your response is wrong-headed and unnecessarily confusing. In Normal mode the mouse is already "disabled" (not enabled) for note input.

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 07:44

Les, your idea of just not entering note input mode when typing a letter might seem a good one at first sight, but it isn't.
What about all the actions that you can only do in note input mode ?
What about the differences between input mode and normal mode, such duration changing the current note vs the next one, alteration changing the current note vs the next one ?
What about insert mode without mouse ?

Really we just need a check box in preferences 'Use mouse as pointing device in note input'

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 08:13

"Les, your idea of just not entering note input mode when typing a letter might seem a good one at first sight, but it isn't."
Wait. You can enter Note Input mode by typing a letter: "N". Fine. But if you want to enter a note by typing "C" (or A or B or D or E or F or G), you should have to enter Input Mode first, by typing "N" or by clicking the
leftmost icon on the Note Input toolbar.
"What about all the actions that you can only do in note input mode ?"
Nobody is trying to take away Note Input mode. All we're saying is that you shouldn't enter it automatically if
you type one of those seven keys.
"Really we just need a check box in preferences 'Use mouse as pointing device in note input'"
No, because in Note Input mode the mouse is a note input device. The check box should be "Enter Note Input mode automatically when entering note from alphanumeric keyboard."

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 10:39

Exactly what I want as well, but the dust thrown in the air in this discussion seems to aim at avoiding support for this simple option. Harmless! Marc’s concern “the users must discover the option somehow” is artificial. That concern could be used as an argument agains all the myriads of options in MuseScore.

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 10:46

@Jojo-Schmitz.
Hi. Not really part of this discussion, but is there a description of the difference about the feature request and pull request. Different workflow? Grade of “seriousness’?, more/less attention etc. Would be nice to know. I’m rather unfamiliar with GitHub (as you can see:) Thanks in advance!

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 10:57

A feature request is a description of something you'd like to have.

A pull request is a technical term designing a request to integrate new code in the code repository. So a pull request supposed you're a devloper with a local copy of the code, that you have modified it to fix bugs or add new features, that it compiles and works succesfully on your machine, and that you need now that the repository administrators accept your code and make it part of the official MuseScore version.

@devs I'm a dev myself and I know that my explanation of PR is simplifying a bit

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 12:35

Ok reading my explanation again I see that if you don't know what a pull request is (but if you know, my explanation is unnecessary ;-) ) there is a small ambiguity in what I wrote.
When I say "a pull request is a request to..." I forgot to mention that a pull request is a special action in the code repository. It is not like a feature request is just text description.

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 12:51

So a Pull Request is a request to pull a piece of code into the repository for inclusion in a release of the application? It may comprise a bug correction, say, or a new option or feature?
What would be the best way to express the change that's being asked for here?

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 12:57

You will never need a pull request if you don't setup a development environment on your computer and start programing.
If you do, what is a pull request will become super clear for you.
If you don't, we can discuss a lot about what it is or not but it will stay quite theoritical.

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• Feb 9, 2024 - 13:10

I just wanted to make sure I've understood. But I'm not interested in programming, I'm interested in writing music. The purpose of my question was to get the discussion back to the subject:

How to keep entry of a note on the alphanumeric keyboard from automatically switching the mouse from a pointing device to a note entry device.

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