different dynamics for voices of same staff

• Sep 15, 2020 - 15:48

Hi

Is there a way to have each voice of the staff controlled by different dynamics. So for piano, if I hold a note with my right hand while playing other notes with my right hand, I might want the held note louder. Maybe the dynamics should have a choice of voices in the same staff.


Comments

In reply to by BSG

Piano doesn't normally use SND anyhow; I assume that was the original context here.

But I'm surprised to hear velocity somehow still works with SND using CC11. That shouldn't be possible any more than SND itself is for a soundfont not designed to use it. But somehow I guess it is.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I want to say the @theotherjthistle did an excellent job writing the SND code and I'm very thankful for it. Using CC2 as the default is a mistake that should be fixed. It is way too limited in its capabilities, at least in the MuseScore implementation. I don't know if the limitations can be fixed.

In reply to by mike320

All I can say is that both James and S. Christian Collins seemed convinced there were significant advantages to using CC2 and reasons CC11 was not acceptable, and they both know more about this than either of us, so I'm not in a position to second-guess this. But also, MuseScore 4 will almost certainly completely reinvent this, moving to MIDI 2.0 etc, so it will probably become moot.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Although slightly off topic, I would like to reiterate (and apologize to OP):

I have repeatedly explained and presented with documents on this forum.
CC11 is active in all synthesizers and modules by default and is used for this job.
I have used it in studios on hardware modules and keyboards with sequencers for years, I know it definitely works. Whichever expert (?) wants to learn this, I prove with examples and videos that it works in all sound modules and synthesizers.

express-02.png

The CC02 selection for this job is incorrect. It was just invented to adapt to Musescore's current working state and adapted legacy Flud 'synth's working possibilities with the Musescore software, and it is a mistake.
It is a complete disaster to reserve additional banks for this job.

In MIDI standards, CC07 is for volume control and CC011 is for expression control. The diagram of how it should work is also given clearly. It is a problem for the developers if they cannot adapt this standard (to work properly) to the software and choose something else instead.

exp-03.png

Source: Complete MIDI 96-1-3.pdf // from MIDI.org


When users start using VSTs when MS4 comes out, there will be thousands of complaints about it, without a doubt.

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If you want the level of the held note to be louder, you should know that the beginning of this note will be more louder (dominant) than the others. Because on instruments such as Piano, Ac Guitar, etc., after triggering the key / string, you cannot have any other control over the volume of the instruments.


In my opinion: Thinking too much sequencer-based can cause problems.
I am a piano player and I know different pianos have different resonance times. Some pianos are deaf (as a term); the player plays considering that situation. Some pianos are very resonant, the player adjusts the sensitivity of using the touch accordingly.

I think the written score should also be suitable for any type of piano structure. (and should be able to play with average dynamics on other sound-fonts). For example, if the sound level of the horns in the soundfont that I am currently using is lower than the others, instead of putting an "f or ff" dynamic on the horn, I have to reduce the others from the mixer a little; do not confuse the dynamics with the mixer settings.

Velocity doesn't mean loudness. As the velocity gets higher / lower, the timbre of the instrument also changes.
That's why the mixer is used: To control the volume without changing the timbre of the instrument.
That is, in the sound-font you are using, it may be necessary to make a pre-adjustment in the mixer to make sure that all instruments are at the same loudness in the "mf" (or "fff") dynamics.

So in the Musescore software, write your score as it should be. You can then export it as a midi file and make the necessary changes for specific instruments with a midi edit software (or a DAW software).

Or you can choose to spend a lot of time in Musescore and deal with velocities and some other things in the Piano Roll Editor or the Inspector. And the result you get will only be used for the soundfont/instrument you are currently using. And since you are adjusting with velocity values, it may not even sound right.

There is a lot of promise for the future Musescore-v4, but maybe only half of what is mentioned here will come true. On the other hand (positively) it is very good if half of what is mentioned is realized.

In reply to by Ziya Mete Demircan

The velocity per note is an idea, tedious though. But the DAW solution, sorry i dont get.

Lets say i have two voices in the piano treble cleff, 10 bars: voice 1 is a whole note at the begining of each bar while voice 2 keeps playing. So i save it as MIDI file and bring it to my DAW. In my DAW, how can i give voice 1 a different dynamic then voice 2? I'm faced with the same problem. The only solution i see is to save each voice as a different track. Or, allow users in Musescore pick a dynamic tied to the voice.

Sorry i just dont see how the DAW helps here.

In reply to by Shirly Lyubomirsky

These are the advantages of using a midi editor (or a DAW):

In the piano roll window in a MIDI editor: top notes, longest notes or desired notes can be easily selected and cut and pasted with the mouse.

Depending on the capabilities of the midi editor you use: It is also possible to copy them to another track or channel, or change the midi channel (or the track) of selected notes. And even drawing an expression (with cc11), other CC messages, pitch bend, modulation wheel messages and some other controls with the mouse.

Also, You can add, remove, add and change many things manually in the "Event List" window.

Many things can be done from the edit menu of the midi-editor too: for example: changing the note lengths, changing velocities, shifting the timing, randomizing the starting positions of the notes and transposing.

In Musescore software:
You can create professional quality scores, print and export them (in many formats).
And you can also listen to the basic playback of your score.
(We are currently on version 3.5 and the developers said there is a midi editor and VST support for version-4.x)

So it is a good practice to start with Musescore and export it for the midi editor (as midifile) after completing the score. Thus, we have a Musescore file (containing the score) and a midi file for other extra operations (for now).

In reply to by Ziya Mete Demircan

I'm not proficient with MIDI editing on my daw piano roll, I'm using Mixcraft. I will have to see. Just seemed simpler to have Musescore give an option of "per voice dynamics. " In one shot i can control one voice dynamics. Seems like Musescore can easily do it. Its already allowing me to label each voice with its own dynamics, just playback is left to workout.

In reply to by Shirly Lyubomirsky

According to my book: dynamics, volume-level, expression, sustain and/or duration-time of notes are very different things.
But I see that discussing them is now equivalent to talking philosophy. So from the user's point of view it seems worthless and useless. // (No irony, just disappointment of hope to help)

I apologize if I confused you. Please apply it as easy as possible. And forget what I said.

In reply to by Ziya Mete Demircan

Ziya, I for one do understand that velocity and volume are different in the midi world but from a user's point of view they are similar enough I don't try to point out this difference. I'll often say something like "Set the velocity and the volume...". There's really no need to get too technical with most users but you info about CC is quite interesting and I hope it is used to improve MuseScore in the future.

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