Horizontal constraint on dragged lyrics, please

• Nov 3, 2020 - 07:03

We can drag lyrics in museScore but I see no discussion of dragging lyrics in the Handbook, so I'm wondering if I've overlooked an important reference on lyric dragging. Perhaps this feature is undocumented in the Handbook's entry on Lyrics.

I'm loving using MuseScore ... but sometimes its UI seems lacking or backwards. For example ...

When I drag a "lyricule" horizontally I want its vertical placement constrained. However MuseScore's default behavior is "Drag me anywhere, Baby" — meaning there the are no constraints, so minor vertical misalignments may be incorporated on mouseUp.

I know I can select a lyricule and arrow left or right. But sometimes an analog "dial" is inherently superior to a digital control—all to say, in manycases I prefer dragging with the mouse.

Naturally in looking for constraint control I tried various modifier keys. To my astonishment Shift constrains lyricule dragging vertically! **Vertically!! And there seems to be no modifier for horizontal constant.**

Does anyone else expect or want default horizontal constraints on dragging lyricules? Or prefer that the Shift modifier key constrains horizontally? If so, please chime in and I'll create a Issue Tracker request.

A line of lyrics is like a line of text, where the baseline of a characters are strictly aligned. Therefore a change strictly in horizontal placement is the adjustment I most commonly make, in order to better center a lyricule beneath a note, or to better situate for two or more long, adjacent "lyricules." (In my workflow there are rare exceptions when I want to move a lyricule vertically to avoid collision with a notation symbol above—but usually I'd prefer move the entire line (rather that a single lyricule) especially if the adjustment is slight.)

Chord symbols and Chord diagrams share the same constraint behavior.

scorster


Comments

And by coincidence I just noticed that the Line tool has the same constraint behaviors. Yes, I can uncheck Allow diagonal ... but I can't think of another application that handles it this way, without an on-score option for constraining horizontally or vertically.

"... default constraints on dragging..."

On Windows Ctrl + drag (presumably on Mac Cmd + drag) allows horizontal dragging without vertical movement.
[EDIT] Not being a mouse enthusiast, I only gave this a quick test. It seems to work sometimes but not always... It is necessary to click the lyric and hold down the mouse button, then hold down Ctrl / Cmd, and then drag the lyric.

But I would encourage you to use the Inspector, because it allows much finer control of positioning - and for multiple lyric text elements simultaneously.

I'm on Windows 10 and can constrain dragging lyrics vertically by using Shift+drag, and horizontally by Ctrl+drag.

Another impressive thing is that one can Shift click a single column of lyrics (or a block of multiple columns of lyrics) and employ these dragging constraints.

As mentioned, you can already constrain dragging - not just for lyrics, or chord symbols, but for all elements - using Ctrl or Shift. But note, aside from general preference from mouse or keyboard when all else is equal, there i no getting around the fact that the keyboard is far more precise - you know exactly how far you are moving things, making it far easier to get consistent results. Also as mentioned, the Inspector is also nice and precise, maybe not as efficient for single elements but great for groups.

Moving elements is certainly documented, but again, since it works with all element types, not just lyrics, it isn't mentioned over and over on every page where it's relevant.

DanielR > On Windows Ctrl + drag (presumably on Mac Cmd + drag) allows horizontal dragging without vertical movement.

Jm6stringer > I'm on Windows 10 and can constrain dragging lyrics vertically by using Shift+drag, and horizontally by Ctrl+drag.

Thanks guys. Somehow I overlooked Ctrl/Cmd drag for constraining x.

That said, I’d REALLY appreciate a preference that would allow me to switch that, so:
* a normal drag is x constrained on lyrics, chord symbols etc.
* Ctrl/Cnd override the constraint by providing free x/y dragging.

Regarding UX: Isn't it logical that users would overwhelmingly want to constrain x when dragging a lyricule, so why not make that the default? Or allow that as the preferrred behavior. Same with chord symbols, chord diagrams.

Plus, on MacOS, the Shift is predominantly the modifier that constrains drags. Is that not true on Windows?

If lyrics, chord symbols and chord diagrams were in x-constrained "lanes" I wouldn't have to use a modifier key for most position editing, and as a Mac user I wouldn't have to remember to use Cmd instead of Shift.

scorster

In reply to by scorster

Just bumping this:

scorster wrote >> I sure could be wrong, but I'm musing that users overwhelmingly want to constrain x when dragging a lyricule, i.e. to drag a lyricule left or right at it's current altitude. I see this every time with people I've coached in MuseScore. If the is the general exception, why not make that the default or via a preference as the preferred behavior?

I’d REALLY appreciate a preference that would allow me:
• an automatic x constraint on normal lyricule drags, chord symbol drags etc.
• Ctrl/Cnd override the constraint by providing free x/y dragging.

If lyrics, chord symbols and chord diagrams lived in automatically x-constrained "lanes" I would rarely need a modifier key for position editing (and as a Mac user I wouldn't have to remember to use Cmd instead of Shift—normal UX on MacOS employs the Shift as the modifier for constrainting x. Is that not true on Windows?)

And yes, I know I can adjust lyricules with arrows and via Inspector position property values. So there's no need to add those points into this thread.

Also, MuseScore Mac 3.6.2 designates the Command key for adding/removing adjacent or discontinuously selected elements. So if I Command click of two or more command-clicked lyricules (to select them) and then command-click one to commence the constrained drag, the MuseScore removed the clicked object from the selection and no drag of any fashion occurs. So with any multi-lyricule selection I must reorder my action to click-command-drag, or suffer the fate described above.

All this complexity goes away if Shift invokes the constraint, but I think there may be a QT cross platform issue with that.

Lastly, In MuseScore Mac 3.6.2 a Shift drag indeed constrains—but only vertically. As mentioned this is contrary to Jeff Raskin's humane interface. And apps often use a “majority wins” Shift-drag gesture ... where the predominant drag direction defines whether the constraint applies to x or y. (See Adobe Illustrator 1.0) In such a scenario, Shift handles all constained drags.

Simple.

scorster

Regarding constraints with respect to dragging lyrics ... I apologize for my oversight of the constraint command key, which is certainly not the command key I'd expect on MacOS.

Regarding my UX with MuseScore overall, as much as I'm loving MuseScore, there appear to be core aspects of its UI that don't seem well harmonized. My main concerns are the behaviors highlighted in beige ... and that Chord diagrams don't respond well to arrows or drags:

MuseScore UI drag and arrow.png

This project was fairly tedious and I did not meticulously document all behaviors, but some oddities did surface. Probably best to start a new topic on the inconsistencies I'm encountering, but I'll post this nonetheless.

scorster

In reply to by scorster

Thanks for your testing, but I don't really understand the chart, or what you mean when you say chord diagrams don't respect to arrows or drag - they certainly do for me. If you are encountering some sort of problem, best to attach your score and give us precise steps to reproduce the issue.

In reply to by scorster

Maybe my submitted chart I wasn't my best idea ...

Regarding arrow keys specifically, here are some behaviors observed today while working on a few scores.

I imagine some of the results are according to design, when that is clear I've marked NORMAL, but some behaviors are bugs or achieve some result I don't comprehend:

Staccato dot

Down / Up arrow keys: NORMAL moves object vertically
Right / Left arrow keys: Selects next or prior note

Mordent

Down / Up arrow keys: Works for a while that the reaches a limit and sticks 
Right / Left arrow keys: Selects next or prior note

Up bow mark

Down / Up arrow keys: NORMAL moves object vertically
Right / Left arrow keys: Selects next or prior note

Fermata

Down / Up arrow keys: no result
Right / Left arrow keys: Selects next or prior note

Slur

All Arrow keys NORMAL

Triplet bracket

 Down / Up arrow keys: moves only left control point
 Right / Left arrow keys: moves left control point

I would think they would work more line Volta or 

Accidental

Down / Up arrow keys: no result, which is interesting considering that drags are so slippery
Right / Left arrow keys: Selects next or prior note

The Dynamics I’ve tested

Down / Up arrow keys: NORMAL moves object vertically
Right / Left arrow keys: NORMAL moves object horizontally

Tempo

Down / Up arrow keys: NORMAL moves object vertically
Right / Left arrow keys: NORMAL moves object horizontally

SVG graphic

Down / Up arrow keys: 
    a) First arrow press selects bottom control point if unselected
    b) Up arrow scales SVG object smaller / Down arrow  scales SVG object larger

Right / Left arrow keys:
    a) First arrow press selects bottom control point if unselected
    b) subsequent right/left arrow presses have no effect

If right control point is manually selected
    Right key: scales SVG larger
    Left key: scales SVG smaller 

Chord diagram

No arrow keys have any impact

Chord symbol

All Arrow keys NORMAL

In reply to by scorster

It's still kind of unclear what you are doing here, best to leave out the things that are normal and just point out things you believe to be problems.

But - keep in mind, most elements require you to double-click them to enable keyboard adjustment. Text is the main exception, because double-click instead is how you edit the text.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I'm starting to revisit some UI keystoke effects. So I'll start here with an easy one:

SVG graphics

Down / Up arrow keys: 
    a) First arrow press selects bottom control point if unselected (Why not change y pos?)
    b) Up arrow scales SVG object smaller / Down arrow  scales SVG object larger 
        (  b) seems backwards: Up normally increases rather than decreases. And why not change y pos?) 

Right / Left arrow keys:
    a) First arrow press selects bottom control point if unselected (Why not change x pos?)
    b) subsequent right/left arrow presses have no effect (Why not change y pos?)

If right control point is click selected
    Right key: scales SVG larger (Why not change the y pos?)
    Left key: scales SVG smaller (Why not change the y pos?)

Is this really the way MuseScore wants arrows to affect SVG objects?

In reply to by scorster

I'm confused - are you talking about lyrics here? I guess not.

For elements with handles, the arrow keys are expected to move the currently selected handle in 0.1 sp increments. It's a relatively recent feature that you you don't need to double-click elements with handles in order to edit them. But while most such elements have a handle that allows for moving the element as well. It appears graphics do not. So probably either they should be excluded from the feature that allows editing without double-click, or a handle should be added, or double-click should enable moving. Not really sure which would fit in best with the overall plans for mouse/keyboard control going forward in MuseScore 4.

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