save on line

• Jan 28, 2021 - 17:13

The save on line is unnecessarily complicated, abstruse, and random: sometimes it replaces the old version, sometimes it creates a new one.

solution: if same file name, then replace, otherwise create version.


Comments

If "File > Score Properties" has the correct url of the score to be updated, then it'll be updated; if it doesn't then its a new score. There is nothing random about that.

Make sure to save your score locally after you've saved it online for the first time, to make sure it saves that reference.

The one and only thing that determines whether to replace or not is

  1. The score URL in File > Score Properties
  2. Whether in File > Save online you don't untick the 'Update existing file' box
  3. It is really your URL, not someone else's!

or

  1. You only use musescore.com's 'Update Score'

(I can count ;-)

In reply to by zevuzevq

No, it doesn't change whatever is in File > Score properties > source, even if it does change the 'nice' URL on musescore.com.
Changing the title does not result in a File > Save online to not update the previous score (and I've even been biten by that in cases where I wanted that to happen)

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

It IS random ! Unless the program makes an exception when it sees me coming.
I save online once, change a few notes (without changing anything else), save online again and TADA! new score, at least half the time.

This has been going on for weeks.
Also, I do not see the usefulness of all these dialog boxes that duplicate the one that exists online.

Please make it simpler. Musicians are not programmers and have no desire to become one.
The strength of musescore so far has been to speak effectively to musicians. May it remain so.

In reply to by zevuzevq

Never ever happened to me, 425 scores online (unlisted though)

I'm still using 3.5.2 though, so there is a possibility that a bug crept into 3.6?

Edit: just tested with 3.6.1 and I can't reproduce this. Unless of course if I remove the check mark "Update existing score" in the Save online dialog

Not sure what duplication you're talking about. You mean MuseScore's File > Save online and musescore.com's Upload? 2 separate things really.

In reply to by zevuzevq

It's not random.

If you used "save online" from within MuseScore when you first uploaded the score, then the appropriate score properties gets set, each an every time without fail. And then subsequent "save online" operations will update the existing score, each and every time without fail. Unless of course you uncheck the box and thus tell MuseScore not to update it.

If, on the other hand, you did not use "save online" when first uploading, but instead uploaded from the website, then the score proerties are not automatically updated, nor would this be possible - MuseScore isn't involved in that process at all, it's completely your web browser and the web site. So, if you ever do that, you will need to set the appropriate field in score properties manually next time you return to MuseScore. And then save online will work.

So, don't initiate uploads from the website if you intend to later use "save online" from within MuseScore. Not programming experience required to follow that guidelines.

If you ever believe you are encountering an exception to this - a case where a score you are positive you originally uploaded via save online does not update the original score, please attach the score in question and links to the old and new copies on musescore.com, then we can try to understand what may have actually happened.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

First, tell me where is this box that I searched in vain.
Second, stop telling me that this is not random, it is not a hallucination after all !!!!

https://musescore.com/scores/zevuzevq/inox-90509762536248
https://musescore.com/scores/zevuzevq/inox-753577524515139
https://musescore.com/scores/zevuzevq/inox-592371764498696
etc.

By the way, if we assume that this
Box is unchecked, the problem is the opposite, sometimes it replaces, sometimes it creates a new version ...

Attachment Size
Inox.mscz 54.74 KB

In reply to by zevuzevq

Not sure which box you mean. The setting in File / Score Properties is "Source", about the 10th one down. Your score here is set to https://musescore.com/user/16582601/scores/6581513, so I can tell you with certaintly that if you use Save Online from within MuseScore, that is the copy MuseScore will try to udpate. Of course, it will only allow this if you actually own that score. And it won't do it if you uncheck the box that says "Update existing score" in the dialog that first appears when you hit Save Online.

As for sometimes behaving one way and sometimes another, I'm not saying it's a hallucination. Yes, you are seeing it behave one way one time and differently another. But that doesn't mean it's random, it just means you don't yet understand the cause. Just like maybe sometimes you bite into a piece of bread and it's soft, other times it's warm and crunchy. But it's not random - if it's warm and crunchy, it came out of a toaster. Simple logical explanation.

Similarly, sometimes your score pdates and sometimes it creates a new one, yes - but it's not rsandom, it's just that some of them were "toasted" :-). So please read my explanation again - it really is that simple. MuseScore can only update a score if it nows what score to update, If you upload originally through Save Online, then the information is recorded, and MuseScore will remember it. If you upload through the website, the information is not recorded, and MuseScore will have no way of discovering it later.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I'll try to create a new editor score from the old one (cut & paste) and check the box you said, we'll see what happens. Your "explanation" of random makes me smile... by random I precisely mean something happens sometimes, sometimes not, within the same condition. It's the programmer's job to find why, not mine :-)

Now, dont worry, I will abandon the case after this intervention.
The impossible no one is bound to ! (À l'impossible nul n'est tenu !)

In reply to by zevuzevq

> "within the same condition"
What so far 3 programmers have been trying to tell you though is that it is not random because it is not within the same condition.

If your local score has a valid score url in the score properties then that is the score that will be updated if you leave the "update this score" checkbox in the upload window checked.
That is always 100% reproducible. This condition never leads to that score not being updated; it is thus not random.

In reply to by zevuzevq

"End of story"
We don't like to give up that easily. ;-)
It really does all revolve around that Source field in File > Score Properties, like this example:
Musescore - File - Score Properties - Source.png

Just follow these steps:
- before upload, ensure that the Source field contains the same URL as the score you want to update
- in Save Online, ensure that the Update existing score checkbox is enabled

So... you need to know how to find that URL?
The URL is saved in File > Score Properties > Source when you first upload the file with Save Online.

But if you have a new score and you want to use it to update an existing online score, then you must find the URL for the existing online score and copy-and-paste it into the empty Source field of your new score before you use File > Save Online for the new score.

In reply to by DanielR

The trick seems to work this time. Six safe onLine in a row without creating new versions! it's an all-time record.

Thanks for the advice.

(But it remains to be seen why at the beginning these urls were different. My way of creating a new partition and saving it onLine is quite standard and mundane. I still believe that the procedure is unnecessarily complex and exposes the musician to undue computer arcana).

In closing, the problematic edit box is titled: "source". It doesn't mean much and it would be more of a destination. This may be the "source" of many problems.

In reply to by zevuzevq

"...the problematic edit box is titled: "source". It doesn't mean much and it would be more of a destination."

I agree: the Source field had me puzzled for quite a while when I first used MuseScore. It might be clearer if it were named source URL - at least everyone could then guess that the field expects a score's web address as its contents.

The Handbook entry is quite hard to find, in "Score Properties":
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/score-properties
where the Source field is described as:
source: May contain a URL if the score was downloaded from or saved to MuseScore.com

In reply to by DanielR

You are right. At the start of this long discussion, I was suggested to compare urls etc. All I saw was the "source" edit box whose field was empty. I thought that the person who advised me had made a mistake by confusing the filename and the url. It must be said that English is not my mother tongue, which does not help understanding ...

Maybe destination url instead ? From the composer's point of view, the source is the editor where he wrotea is masterpiece, right?

Thank you again for these clarifications.

In reply to by DanielR

I hadn't thought of that ... But it seems to me that it's not the same dialog box.

By the way, after some successful OnLine save, the random behavior started again, despite checking and copying-pasting the correct url, and saving everything in-place before saving onLine.

This time however, I don't want to start all this dialogue all over again. I believe I will wait for other people to report the bug.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

It should be, but it isn't. What I am saying is that even when copying the url, the behavior remains aberrant.
I remember the blessed days when I could create a new partition and save it onLine without worrying about all these details.

With all due respect, I believe that as long as you believe that the problem is not on your side, there is no point in continuing.

In reply to by zevuzevq

Under normal cirumstances, you don't need to worry about these details. Things should work correctly without you need to ever look at that URL. We only bring it up because that's where you would turn if you encounter a problem but 99.9% of the time there won't be. I've saved literally hundreds of scores online and never once had it not behave exactly as it should. There definitely is a point in continuing - we'd really like to help you. But in order to do so, we would need you to take a step back and start considering what precise steps you are following that lead to the unexpected results. Then we can see if it/s something you are doing wrong, or just something you are doing that is different from how others do it and that is what leads to a bug being triggered that no one else experiences. Either way, we need your help in order to get to the bottom of it.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

First step:
I create a partition, save it to disk, then save it onLine. a dialog box appears without asking me if I want to replace an existing version. I click "continue".

A large dialog box appears and performs processing. During this time, I declare the thing "public", wait for the end of the treatment, then do "next and affirm that it is an original work then I click" "save"

Second step:

I check that the partition is indeed made onLine, whose URL is:
https://musescore.com/scores/zevuzevq/pauvreutilisateursansdefensescont…

Third step:
Back to the editor. I add some notes, save on disk then onLine.
This time, the first box asks me if I want to update (default option). I click "continue" because the default option suits me. The big box appears and tells me that the score is up to date.

Fourth step:
Back onLine. Everything seems correct. Url unchanged:
https://musescore.com/scores/zevuzevq/pauvreutilisateursansdefensescont…

Fifth step:
Back to the editor.
I check "Partition properties" The URL shown is:
/ score-clean

If I save onLine at this step, museScore will create a new score and trouble will begin.
If I correct the url, then sometimes museScore will replace, sometimes create. I don't see what more I can do !!!! The only thing that may be a bit special is that the instruments come from different sets among those offered in the instruments dialog.
I don't see what that can change but do you ever know ...

In reply to by zevuzevq

So you are saying everything is fine up through step four, but then for some reason you are going to Score Properties? Unfortunately there seems to be a typo of editing glitch here, I don't see a URL listed there, only the text "/ score-clean". That's not a string that appears anywhere within the MuseScore source code, so if you are seeing that, it must be something you are typing, or else that was a typo?

When you say you "correct" the URL, what do you correct it to? And can you post a link to a score that you believe had the correct URL when you saved it but nonetheless created a new score on upload? Did you verify at this stage that it was actually offering to update, and did you click the link to verify it was updating the correct score?

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I never type "/ score-clean" and that would be a more than weird typo.

I corrected the "/ score-clean" to: https://musescore.com/scores/zevuzevq/pauvreutilisateursansdefensescont…
Already registered onLine

Dialog box didn't ask to replace or create. A new score was created onLine
https://musescore.com/user/16582601/scores/6587570

By the way, when you can't find "/ score-clean" in the program, is it version 3.6.1.515740129 ?

In reply to by zevuzevq

So you are saying you really did see "/ score-clean" in the dialog? Very strange.

Assuming you don't have some sort of keyboard macro set up on your OS to type that, I can only guess that something within msuescore.com is replacing the URL for some reason. It would normally do this only on the first upload, to fill that field in since it starts blank. But maybe something really strange about this particular score is triggering some weird behavior on that website. Hard to say why, but that might be something to take up with the people who maintain that website (eg. in the "Improving msuescore.com" group).

As I mentioned, this string does not appear with the source code to MsueScore itself (current sources as of this morning).

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Yes, "/ score-clean" without a doubt, and to several works that I have transmitted.

What intrigues me is apparently being the only one to put up with these aberrations. You should be inundated with similar complaints ...

I'M PROBABLY PARANOIA, BUT FOR SOME TIME, THERE IS A rascal THAT AWARDS ME A SINGLE STAR IN EVERY WORK I PRODUCE (maj button was on, sorry). My scores may not be 5 stars, but they are certainly worth more than one star. It may have something to do with the strange behavior of the program. A sort of aesthetic terrorist ||| "/ score-clean" suggest something like "destroy score".

In reply to by zevuzevq

I've been active on these forums practically every day for the past ten years, and I've literally never once heard of this. So, I do think it's something unique to either this particular score, or your account in general. What it might be, I haven't a clue, so like I said, best to ask the folks over on musescore.com. I think there is almost zero chance anything done by another user could affect anything, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to mention that theory to the support folks over on that site.

In reply to by zevuzevq

@zevuzevq
Yes, "/ score-clean" without a doubt, and to several works that I have transmitted.

You are not the only user who has experienced this problem: it has happened to me as well while trying to update existing scores. It is a genuine problem, but very rare.

I am fairly certain that this is a "score clean-up" process being run by the MuseScore team in Kaliningrad. There was major problem starting about 12 December 2020, which showed up as broken formatting in several areas of downloaded scores. See this long thread on "Improving Musescore.com":
https://musescore.com/groups/improving-musescore-com/discuss/5085250

In the absence of any official announcement from the MuseScore staff, I can only assume that there is a batch process which locks (one at a time) any potentially damaged scores dating from ca. 12 December and then performs a complex edit to "clean" or reformat various broken elements . These include edited dynamics (subito p), tempo directions with a notehead and stem metronome mark, instrument names which extend over two lines and so on.

You and I were two unlucky people who have seen this score locking happen more than once. For most users the situation never occurs, but when it does occur the "/score-clean" in the Source field of Score Properties is a sure sign that the existing online version has not been updated. And unfortunately the target URL has been removed from the Source field as part of that locking process!

It would be really helpful if the staff in Kaliningrad commented on this problem and its solution, but in the thread I mentioned the last comment was on 12 January "We're working on it"...
https://musescore.com/groups/improving-musescore-com/discuss/5085250#co…

And there has never been any warning that scores may be locked from being updated.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

"So you are saying you really did see "/ score-clean" in the dialog? Very strange."
@Marc Sabatella
Marc, the "/score-clean" text never appears in the upload dialog of File > Save Online.

The "/score-clean" text replaces the target URL in the Source field of Score Properties, and can be viewed in the Source field after the Save Online fails to update an existing score. I guess the Save Online fails because that online score is locked by a batch repair process, but it is only a guess...

In reply to by DanielR

Conclusion is that the user was not dreaming at all when he was saying his scores were randomly creating new ones or updating existing when saving online.
First answers could have been a bit less affirmative about the impossibility of that.

In reply to by frfancha

No one never said anyone was dreaming - just that it isn't random. And I stand by that. We might not understand what is going on with musescore.com, but the behavior is MsueScore itself is not random here, and probably whatever is going on with musescore.com isn't either. But whatever is happening on that other website needs to be discussed over there, it seems to not be related to MuseScore itself. And hopefully it's understood that no one is trying to insult anyone. We've literally never heard of this happening before, ever in the 10+ year history of MuseScore, but still, no one insulted anyone. If something I wrote was construed as an insult, I apologize for the wording that caused the confusion.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

You might be right about randomness, although there is no guarantee, for example, that an uninitialized variable would not cause problems that would appear to be random.

In summary, I am facing a bug that you cannot reproduce. Other users with the same problem may provide some clues one day or another...

In reply to by zevuzevq

Indeed, you may be right that something on musescore.com is producing a fairly random result. Again, I don't know musescore.com code, I know only MuseScore code, and that isn't random :-). In any case, sounds like the problem is understood over there, not sure what solution might exist, but now the source of the problem is known, best to continue the discussion over there on that site.

In reply to by Shinkai Setsuna

Good! I am no longer the only one suffering from hallucinations it seems!
Users from of all countries , let's unite so that this awful bug is gone.

Although I have little means to verify, it seems that Jojo-Schmitz is right: The naming schema is probably too complicated and equivocal. Moreover, when a program get too big, the bugs accumulate and it is no longer debugable, especially if it is the work of a committee (Entropy at work).

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