Respell notes option and better real time note input when recording to a metronome
One major thing preventing me from being able to write sheet music of any of my own compositions or make transcriptions of my improvisations is the fact MuseScore doesn't handle hand played midi very well, and there is no way to easily correct the messy midi import notation in one click. Sibelius has a respell that simply rewrites the notes using only minimum values you input and what tuplets are allowed and if they can be advanced or simple tuplets. I would probably do midi import anyway but if I was doing one hand at a time I would use the metronome and real time note input. Thing is, audio latency is absolutely insane making it impossible to get good results!
If the rewrite function could be added I could actually make use of MuseScore the way it should be used, and that is first and foremost to write music!
Comments
In the meantime, consider trying the free Dorico SE - feature list found here: https://www.steinberg.net/dorico/features/
Potentially, it seems one could input notes on a piano instrument there or test MIDI import of piano and then export to MusicXML for MuseScore later if desired...
Will leave with the more common tetragrammaton: "YMMV"
In reply to In the meantime, consider… by worldwideweary
I've had a bit of a sour relationship with Dorico but I might try it
Probably simplest if you have no choice but to start with MIDI would be to import into a DAW and quantize as heavily as possible. be sure also to record the hands separately. Still, no getting around the need to figure out notation details like voice assignments and enharmonic spelling separately in notation software, since MIDI doesn't handle that. In the end, with luck you might end up with results faster than entering by hand, in some cases at least. Depends on the nature of the music.
In reply to Probably simplest if you… by Marc Sabatella
But that's basically what the respell does, it quantizes the notes in the score like a DAW does but you can do it more efficiently because you won't have to select all the notes and then pick out any spots where there are more complex things like tuplets because you can see where those are in the score. Hitting the respell shouldn't have to deal with things like second voicing (though MuseScore already does that!) so all you'd need to do is select whatever parts of the score need to be rewritten with the notes the user specifies and then hit OK and the score would automatically be quantized. Seems to me like an almost stupidly simple solution to writing sheet music from midi files. in fact, this would also make it much easier for me to make piano roll transcriptions, most of the rolls have swing and MuseScore makes a ton of triplets (no, the swing compensator on import does not solve the problem in the least) which would be easily eliminated by the respell. I actually used this function in Sibelius and if it weren't for the ridiculous interface I probably would have already mothballed MuseScore and used it!
In reply to But that's basically what… by Piotr Barcz
Let's see. Don't like Dorico, don't like Sibelius, Don't like MuseScore. Not many choices left.
It just sounds to me like using a questionable input method that you know will result in errors, and then expecting the software to correct them, isn't a very efficient way to work. By the way,no latency problem on my system.
In reply to Let's see. Don't like Dorico… by bobjp
But that's the thing, the respell works perfectly in Sibelius, it is so efficient to make scores with the function! The only thing stopping me from completing a score is that Sibelius simply has one of the worst user interfaces and an extremely buggy playback interface that I could get working for the life of me. MuseScore is slowly getting it's act together but there are so many features that are in other programs that make writing sheets easier that aren't in this one that I have to do ridiculously annoying procedures to make my score when all I need is one simple built in quantization function, is it really that much to ask for?
As for the latency, I honestly don't know why I have it so bad, it's at least 300 milliseconds. I hit a note on my keyboard and the soundfont in MuseScore plays that note about one third of a second later.
In reply to But that's the thing, the… by Piotr Barcz
Actually I can't speak to the respell function. I don't use a midi keyboard. And It still makes no sense to me to have to use the respell function. I have zero problems with the Sibelius UI as well as the MuseScore UI. They are different. Thar's all. I'm not sure what you mean by buggy playback in Sibelius. Never use the choices that it loads when you create a score. Those are very basic.
it makes more sense to me to find a note input system that gets it right the first time. Rather than wasting time trying to fix it later.
I sounds like you aren't using an sf2 font in MuseScore. I used Polyphone to change the default General HQ font from sf3 to sf2.
In reply to Actually I can't speak to… by bobjp
There's actually two different "respell" or "rewrite" buttons. One does something else, I talking about the one that asks you what notes and tuplets are allowed in the selected section to be rewritten and then quantizes the notes to that specification. It's only useful for midi imports and when you input notes in real time to a metronome. The buggy playback is me trying to get the midi output to go through my CFX vst and even when the test works to play notes the score won't play the notes through the VST leaving me using the damned Wavetable synth for sound. And yes I'm using the default SF3, I didn't know the SF2 gives different results.
The only other input method that would work in my case is to do it manually by selecting note duration, striking notes on my keyboard and continuing. The thing is, I do NOT know how to read sheet music and I am terribly slow at inputting notes this way, I screw up one spot with syncopation and I have to start again rewriting a whole 4 measures. It can take me 2 hours to write a 3 minute score. The respell makes it possible to import a hand played midi and then quantize it in the program with visible sheet music results and not the daw which will still give me weird stuff on import.
In reply to There's actually two… by Piotr Barcz
OK. That explains a lot. So there really isn't a good input method for you in any notation program. You might be able to get a free DAW to work. I don't know. They are not notation based. plenty of people use them that don't read music.
In reply to OK. That explains a lot. So… by bobjp
But there is that one input method that works. the midi import and then the rewrite in Sibelius. It makes a score, I just can't figure out how to edit anything on the score because the UI in Sibelius is crazy, take a look at the Tantacrul video on it, the program is horrid when it comes to learning it.
In reply to But there is that one input… by Piotr Barcz
I have used Sibelius for many years. When I first started trying MuseScore, the UI was very strange to me. The drum palette still makes me crazy. So I don't write drum parts. The point is that notation software assumes that the user knows notation. If the user doesn't, the software can't be expected to react the way the user thinks it should. Of the import file types, midi is probably the worst. If you create a midi file of you playing, if may not be accurate time wise. if you put that midi into notation software it will probably produce a nightmare. Midi doesn't care if a note is F# or Gb. It doesn't care about beat accuracy. Notation is all about those things. What kind of editing problems are you having?
In reply to I have used Sibelius for… by bobjp
Ok, let me explain the whole story. I don't know how to read sheet music, I don't know how to write it efficiently manually (so the way I'm normally forced to do it, select note duration, and then strike a chord on my midi keyboard to add that chord of the selected duration to the score) because I simply don't have enough experience with durations and rhythm in sheet music format.
When I used Sibelius, I recorded a midi externally to a metronome, making it perfectly timed to the midi grid, and then I imported it. Of course that produced a huge mess of notes BUT the rewrite function basically takes any selection and quantizes the notes in that measure to, for example, 8th notes and 8th note triplets.
If I were to try to do this in the piano roll editor of a midi software, I would have to select all the notes and then run through the score to pick out any runs or any tuplets that would be faster than 8th notes, otherwise they would be straightened too.
In the score format at least I can see where those tuplets are easily (unlike the piano roll view in a midi editor where everything is just a bunch of lines) and then straighten everything around them with the rewrite. Then I would select the tuplets and quantize those the same way.
This method would make writing out a three minute rag or novelty piece with lots of improv and stuff a breeze, probably would only take me half an hour to write a score this way as opposed to the extremely frustrating 3 hours I would have to spend if I were manually inputting notes.
And again, the only reason I'm NOT using Sibelius is because I am simply baffled by the interface, it took me almost 10 minutes to figure out how to add tempo text! Not only that, I could not for the life of me find the grace note input method in the whole program, even after searching for almost half an hour. If I could have found those and was actually able to write notes in without something telling me I can't or hiding the tools from me then I would've gotten rid of MuseScore from my computer ages ago!
In reply to Ok, let me explain the whole… by Piotr Barcz
Temporary workaround until MuseScore (or a plugin for it) can fulfill your needs:
1. Record your MIDI as you do now
2. Import it into Sibelius as you do now and benefit from the quantification you're familiar with
3. Export from Sibelius to MusicXML (preferably using the Dolet plugin)
4. Import that MusicXML into MuseScore for further editing.
In reply to Temporary workaround until… by jeetee
Ok I guess that is a solution. Thing is, I've noticed that a lot of the time the musicXML import to MuseScore glitches and some measures are missing. This has happened every time I've used MXL with MuseScore, one instance a whole part was gone from the score.
In reply to Ok I guess that is a… by Piotr Barcz
Not trying to deflect, but usually the fault lies in native Sibelius Export (but not always, we have things to improve as well!).
Next time you encounter a MusicXML issue, be sure to open a new topic and attach the MusicXML file itself; then we can assess whether it is something to fix in MuseScore or not.
In reply to Not trying to deflect, but… by jeetee
Oh this issue had nothing to do with Sibelius in this case, one XML file was from Flat IO, the other was from Noteflight. The Flat file was missing the second part on the bottom of the page entirely. The Noteflight file was missing 2 or 3 measures in the first system. I think there were more missing but I just did a new score from midi at that point.
In reply to Ok, let me explain the whole… by Piotr Barcz
Hmmm. Did you look in the manual for those things? Or did you think that something so basic should be easy to find on your own? My version is a bit older, but from the screen shots, the UI looks pretty similar. Tempo text is harder to find than grace note input. There should be a keypad window in the lower right. By default it shows common notes. At the top of it, select the thing that looks like a rest. That shows more notes as well as grace notes. Can't say that I've ever seen Sibelius drop a measure or an entire instrument when imported into MuseScore. You have two choices of xml export.
In reply to Hmmm. Did you look in the… by bobjp
I didn't even know there is a manual, I guess I'll have to do some reading xD I didn't know that the keypad allows for grace note input, I think that should be in a separate box in the keypad altogether, not to be had by going through a process, MuseScore has grace notes as their own input where you can write in as many as you want in sequence. I've never had Sibelius drop a measure but MuseScore has done it to me when I try to import MXLs almost every time, though I've never had the problem with a Sibelius exported MXL. The only times I had problems was with Noteflight and Flat MXLs. I have not been able to do the opposite and import an XML from MuseScore into Sibelius however, it says something is missing every time and I can't fix it. Pisses me off too because I want to fool around with dynamic patterns that I've heard can be applied for more nuanced dynamics (like accenting only the 1 and 4 beats in the 4/4 measure and stuff like that) AND I want to get Noteperformer and seeing that I've never used any other software other than MuseScore I decided to go for the next best thing. Sibelius at least gives fantastic results once you know how to use it. The midi files in particular are very nice.
In reply to I didn't even know there is… by Piotr Barcz
That Keypad is also where you'll find tremolos, jazz articulations, fermatas and accents. It does much of what palettes do. Except for text. And lines.
File/Help to find the manual.
Personally I think NotePerformer is over-rated.
In reply to That Keypad is also where… by bobjp
Man, you're a legend! Thanks so much! I'll reinstall the program and and find the manual, thanks for the keypad info as well :)
In reply to I didn't even know there is… by Piotr Barcz
If there is a specific MusicXML file where you believe the file was exported correctly but somehow MuseScore omitted a measure on import, please attach that MusicXML file so we can investigate. I’ve never heard of such a case being reported in the millions of tests and real examples out there. But it certainly could be that the program that created the MusicXML file in question did so in a way that is technically valid MusicXML but is sufficiently unusual that no one else has encountered such a case.
In reply to If there is a specific… by Marc Sabatella
Hmmm, I don't know if I might've deleted the only XML I still had. MuseScore also gave me a warning when opening the file that it had corrupted but only after telling me it wasn't a valid XML file and if I still wanted to open it. If I still have the file I'll post it but I might've gotten rid of it.
In reply to Hmmm, I don't know if I… by Piotr Barcz
If the MusicXML file was invalid/corrupt, that's definitely a problem with the MusicXML file itself. Meaning, that's a bug to report to the company that produced the software that created the file. And that corruption could indeed explain any missing information after importing into MuseScore.