The terrible sound of Muse Sounds violins (Muse Sound)
In this subforum, I would like to devote a discussion to the topic of playing violins at fast tempos in a non-legato style.
The fact is that nowadays Muse Sounds violins, unless staccato is indicated, always sound like legato. It's very beautiful, but not always.
As proof, I'll give you an example - an excerpt from a cue from the soundtrack. In this cue (at the end), the violins should sound like brillante. Please listen carefully to this passage and listen to the violins as they sound: 13-The-Hidden-World.ogg . And now everything is the same, only in the Muse Sounds format: The Hidden World (to issue).ogg . Do you hear the difference? After all, this is really so! Violins in Musescore not only sound like fortissimo instead of forte (because at the moment Musescore still cannot fix the bug related to the constant volume, which is described in issue #16381 https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/16381 , they also sound like legato The Hidden World (to issue) - violins.ogg . It sounds terrible, like in a horror movie. The violins there should sound brilliant, each note of the tuplet should be extracted by a separate movement of the bow (as a détaché). Because of this, I can't get the appropriate sound output (as in the original). If I switch to MS Basic, the trills that were recorded earlier will sound terrible, and the violins will still not sound in the brillante style.
Question: what should I do about it? How can I fix the situation and make the violins sound the same as brillante? Can someone recommend a good free plugin? (just not the BBC, as there is the same problem, and all notes can only sound in one of several styles throughout - either legato or staccato).
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| The Hidden World (to issue).mscz | 228.58 KB |
| The Hidden World (to issue).ogg | 519.07 KB |
| The Hidden World (to issue) - violins.ogg | 519.67 KB |
| Battle of the Bewilderbeast.ogg | 249.88 KB |
| Battle of the Bewilderbeast-bowed_strings.ogg | 148.02 KB |
Comments
Yes, Muse Strings are......interesting. But consider that notation software is not intended to sound like a real orchestra. You'll get closer with a DAW and a few thousands dollars worth of libraries. Plus what you listen with make a big difference. Laptop speakers, $30 buds, $200 headphones, all sound different.
Short of all that, don't use Violins 1. The numbers do not refer to desks, they refer to playing styles. 1 is more expressive. As an experiment, turn off reverb on the strings.
Probably most important. PAN YOUR SCORE. Right now everything is center. All on top of each other. A jumble of sound. Experiment with 1st violins 90 degrees left and 2nd violins 90 degrees right. Cellos to the right and violas to the left. Basses hard right. Space the other instruments out also.
Good luck.
In reply to Yes, Muse Strings are… by bobjp
I usually always believe and trust the "Pan score automatically"
![Снимок экрана (205).png]()
. I think the program equalizes the sound itself. Isn't that right?
In reply to I usually always believe and… by Dima S.
That control only keeps the focus on the playback cursor. Turn it off and see what happens when playback goes to another page. There is no equalization going on. Above each fader is a knob that controls which stereo channel (left or right) that instrument gets assigned to. Play a bit of just your string section. Then set the knobs the way I mentioned. Then listen to just the strings again. The Mixer is basically the same thing someone would use in a live show. Used to control how loud each instrument or mic is.
In reply to That control only keeps the… by bobjp
In principle, you are right that a DAW library worth several thousand dollars or more will help me get closer to a more realistic sound of a symphony orchestra.
But in this case, I'm talking about the terrible sound of violins, not because they are free, but because they sound like legato. That's why it makes such a terrible sound. I think the sound would be good if the détaché technique were used instead of legato. In modern musical notation, such a technique is practically nowhere indicated, since everything that is not legato (slurred notes) is usually performed with a separate bow movement. Why not implement exactly the same thing in Muse Sounds?
In the score that I attached, you can hear that the violins at the end certainly do not sound legato style. Why does Muse Sounds play it like legato? After all, no relevant instructions are given and no slurs are written, but it still reproduces it in legato style. As a result, it turns out to be some kind of mess.
Moreover, you correctly noticed that Muse Strings is interesting. After all, the détaché technique is clearly audible if you reproduce the notes with tremolo added through the stems. I attached a video, watch and listen, how clearly you can hear that each sixteenth note is taken by a separate movement of the bow (up-down-up-down, etc.) But then the notes should sound exactly the same, recorded equivalent to tremolo as the sixteenth. Instead, they start to sound like legato. It's horrible. It sounds like a slob 23-11-14_2.ts . I do not know if there is a corresponding request on the Github to improve the sound of violins. I think this needs to be fixed first. Anything that is not legato (unless a verbal instruction or slurs above the notes are specified) should sound like détaché.
In reply to In principle, you are right… by Dima S.
I don't disagree. It may or may not get fixed. If it does, my guess is that an additional font will be needed. Sibelius, which has 36gigs of sounds, lists separate normal, legato, and vibrato sounds.
You posted a part of a recording that you wished MU4 sounded like. Fair enough. But Four different orchestras are going to sound different. Add to that, the recording atmosphere. You will have some very clean and some, not so much.
Muse strings don't sound like you want. I get it. And strings aren't the only sounds that have problems. The question is, "What do you do about it?" I don't know what your goal is with this copyrighted score. If it is playback, there may be options. Limited as they may be. I've tried a few VSTs. They tend to have their own problems. Some are worse. The Violins 2 sound tends to be less sloppy and a little cleaner. Use it for both parts. Turn off the reverb on those channels. And, again, pan them like you were sitting center in front of an orchestra. That helps you hear things better. Less of a jumbled mess. Will that be enough? Probably not. But we don't have many choices. There are also a number of effects from the Hub that might help with the brilliance you want.
In reply to I don't disagree. It may or… by bobjp
I believe that the desired effect can be achieved only by what I wrote about - a certain technique of playing bowed string instruments. I followed your recommendations and set up the mixer as you said. But it didn't change much for the better.
To your question about "What do you do about it?" The answer is certainly simple. I want to get the sound as close to the original as possible. And to be honest, it's not bad with Muse Sounds! I'm not complaining about the rest of the Muse Sounds, they're doing a good job. If it were MS Basic, the sound would be even worse (much worse), and I think you understand this perfectly well. To make sure of this, it is enough to switch the sound library from Muse Sounds to MS Basic and you will hear that the sound will become completely different (much worse). There are, of course, some other comments on the sound of Muse Sounds, for example, the inability to highlight the sound of "solo", as indicated by the corresponding request on the github https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/20837 , but this is not as scary as the sound of violins.
I would really like this problem to be fixed. I once left a corresponding request on github, but I believe that it has been shelved, and it is not clear when it will be accepted for consideration and whether it will be considered at all. I will try to make sure that this problem is still considered and done as soon as possible.
Thank you very much for the recommendations and the answer to my question. After all, Muse Sounds is a very good sound library. The sounds are amazing! It sounds very good. Nevertheless, there are problems that I think it would be best to fix, and I hope that the problem I wrote about will be solved as soon as possible. Thanks again very much.
In reply to I believe that the desired… by Dima S.
I have used MU4 and Muse Sounds since they were in Beta. The sounds have come a long way, but still have a ways to go. Maybe this note separation problem will get fixed. Maybe it won't. I write for playback only. So when I come up against something the sounds can't do, I have few choices. I either figure out a way to get close, or I write something else. This is a challenge that composers face. Usually I do a combination of both. Some one that does transcription where playback is important, can't do that as much.
The rest of the sounds don't always do a good job. I have a bit of a list. But, the sounds are what they are, so to speak. And, in general, so much better than MU3 that I don't even have MU3 on my system.
You want MU4 to sound like the "original". What if the "original" isn't correct? Which "original"? No two recordings will sound the same.
In reply to I have used MU4 and Muse… by bobjp
In this example, by the word "original" I mean the original soundtrack to the third movie "How to Train your Dragon". After listening to this original soundtrack, you can understand that those who created this soundtrack were able to make the violins sound like brillante. I want to achieve the same thing with Muse Sounds. Unfortunately, I have not been able to do this yet, but I believe that this can be fixed if everything that I have already described on github is implemented (https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/22140)
In reply to In this example, by the word… by Dima S.
There are many effects that are available from the HUB. Lots of different EQ's.