Changing the time signature and deleting parts

• Jan 3, 2025 - 09:10

I have only just started using Musescore. I have imported a score from a pdf and am now tidying it up. I need to change the time signature half way through because this has not been done during the import. However, I am not allowed to do this because apparently part scores have already been created (not by me knowingly). So I need to delete the part scores. I have read the instructions in the handbook but I do not have a delete option as described, only a reset option which does not delete them. Help!

Comments

• Jan 3, 2025 - 16:49

There are a few inconsistencies in what you say. First of all, the conversion of a PDF file does not come with parts. Either you have created them for some reason, or someone else did it before you, and you recovered this file in this state?

Having said that, even if parts are created, this should in no way prevent you from changing the time signature as you wish, and as often as you wish.
And it's not deleting the parts that will change anything.

So there's something to be clarified, to be better understood in the description of your problem. Please attach the file concerned (.mscz) so that we can help you better.

If it helps, see: https://musescore.org/en/node/289899

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• Jan 3, 2025 - 18:54

Thank you fore your prompt reply.

Initially I was using Musescore just to get a midi file to use in Personal Composer to create parts but then I thought I should learn to use it because it might prove easier. I do a lot of work with early music and some of the features I need are not always available.

I was not aware that I created any parts. Is it possible that my setting the instruments and names for each stave is actually creating the score parts? If so I did not realise that. The original mscz from the pdf conversion does appear to have parts when I look in the parts tab although they are all called 'voice'.

Here is as much detail as I can give you of what I have done.
Here are the steps I have taken so far:
1. Uploaded pdf to online conversion software: https://musescore.com/import (pdf attached - In Dulci Jubilo a 8.pdf)
2. Opened .mscz file in Musescore 4 (original file from pdf import attached - 9cb06501fb9aa6f183f0e539a0ea56321e1a3c6b.mscz) (Also attached my current version of the file with the work I have done so far - Praetorius Michael - In Dulci Jubilo.mscz)
3. Started to tidy up in readiness for creating parts.
4. Created instruments (i wasn’t sure how or why to do this but it seemed to work on the score and produced acceptable sound).
5. Changed clef on both Alto voices from treble to treble with 8 under for non early music musicians to play on recorder and then struggled to get the stems correct. They didn’t change automatically and I had to fiddle a bit to change them.
6. Attempted to change clef from treble to treble with 8 under on tenor voices but without changing the notes. I couldn’t find out how to do this but worked it out myself eventually by transposing the whole stave down an octave first then changing the clef to bring the notes back up an octave.
7. Attempted to add the 2/2 time signature at bar 88 where it had been missed by the pdf import but got the message attached in the image.
8. Following the instructions in the handbook (image attached) I tried to delete the part scores so that I could add the correct time signature and then create the parts again but delete was not an option, only 'reset' (Image of what I see in the image attached).

I think Musescore looks as if it would do a really good job, better than Personal Composer and I would really like to use it and not have to fiddle with moving between different packages.

So after closing everything I have just returned to the computer and, not being one to be beaten, attempted again to drag the new time signature to the bar and although it didn't work I didn't get the message either so I went to the parts and attempted to drag the time signature to one of the parts. This has worked and put the new time signature in all the parts and score as well. There were two places to do this and it has worked in both.

This still does not explain the lack of a delete option in my parts that is shown in the handbook.

One other thing that is confusing me is the red notes - loads of them. I can't musically see what they might mean.

I do seem to have overcome the issue but your offer of help is much appreciated and you might still find the files of interest since things don't seem to be working quite the way expected. If not then please just ignore.

Many thanks

Linda Barlow

Attachment Size
In Dulci Jubilo a 8.pdf 343.24 KB
Praetorius Michael - In Dulci Jubilo.mscz 231.08 KB
9cb06501fb9aa6f183f0e539a0ea56321e1a3c6b.mscz 26.31 KB
My musescore file.png 51.72 KB
from the Musescore 4 handbook.png 47.76 KB
message on dragging time signature to score.png 38.41 KB

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• Jan 4, 2025 - 04:12

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I was busy, and your message included several different things and documents.
A few key points:

  1. " The original mscz from the pdf conversion does appear to have parts when I look in the parts tab although they are all called 'voice'."
    They are underlying, waiting to be opened, but for the moment they are not active (they don't appear in the tabs above the score).

  2. Overall, you've done a great job. After the Pdf conversion, you changed the instruments for the Recorders family. Except that this change is not accompanied by the display of the instrument's original clef, which I personally regret (for example, for the Soprano Recorder should come with the Treble clef 8va alta).

Once this change has been made to the instrument's original clef, and after changing octave if necessary (with Ctrl/Cmd + up or down arrow), the display would be correct: i.e. without all those notes colored red - because they are no longer in the instrument's usual pitch range (this is MuseScore's way of letting you know)

But since you have other preferences for the Soprano and Alto clefs, this leads to this kind of result. Nevertheless, you can choose to disable this coloring by going to the menu Edit / Preferences / Notes input / Uncheck "Color notes outside usual pitch range".

  1. Regarding the time signature change, I think you made a mistake in the way you did it, and it's not related to the parts (whether they've been opened or not). You dragged the 2/2 while holding down the Ctrl/Cmd key.

This is an operation used for local time signatures, which you don't need here. Disregard this message - it's partly wrong, the problem isn't the presence of parts (I got it the same way without open parts), but this local time signature. And so there's no need to remove parts to settle the matter.
The easiest way to change time signatures: select the measure you want to change, then simply click on the wished time signature in the palette, and everything's fine. There's also another 2/2 near the end, measure 120 (I also made the change in the attached score below)

  1. There are still a few things to change/edit (that's the lot with this kind of pdf conversion). In measures 121 and 122, I see that the beats are out of order, there's misplaced 8th rests at the beginning. These two measures will have to be revised.

And maybe others, I haven't looked at them all. But if you see a little "+" or "-" in gray above the staves, it means something is wrong (the measure counts extra beats or vice versa) and must be rectified.

  1. I've also changed the octave of the Altos to conform to pdf display. I don't know if I did it right! You can modify it if necessary, as you know how to do that.

And here's your file, at this stage I'm at: 2 In dulci Jubilo.mscz

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• Jan 4, 2025 - 17:16

Thanks for all your help.
1. I understand the parts now, I think.
2. I also see what you are saying about the clefs. Recorder players don't usually bother too much about the 8 above or below. Either option is acceptable as long as all the parts are comparable to each other. The change you have made would not be correct for the alto part. The notes need to be an octave higher for the 8 below clef. That is how an alto recorder would want to see it. The alto recorder would be playing higher than the tenor. I could write the whole thing with the correct clefs for recorders but I use the music for a renaissance brass and wind group playing cornetts and sackbuts as well and they play an octave lower and are not keen on playing music if they think it has been arranged for recorder. That said I think I can happily make the changes now and am happy to just ignore the red notes now I know what they mean.
3. I think I tried to drag the time signature before and when it didn't work I searched and found the mention of holding the control key down but as a beginner I tried so many things that I'm not sure what I did. Anyway, I am making a quick list of all the things that I am likely to need again and your information has helped a lot.
4. I can hear what you mean when I play back and I will look at that but I'm not too bothered about the playback as long as the sheet music looks good. And thank you for sorting the single bar on one of the systems. that was another thing I wasn't sure about and I don't know how I cocked it up.
5. As I said at 2 the change you have made would go with a clef without the 8 below. For the 8 below clef the notes need to be an octave higher but as you say I know how to do that now.

Thanks for your help. am I able to come back to you directly if I need more help or do I have to take the route I did before for a new topic?

Linda

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• Jan 4, 2025 - 17:29

Yes, the top one is what I wanted but with the notes on the alto lines an octave higher than the pdf.

The pdf score as it stands is fine for most players but some recorder players (genreally those who don't play other instruments and don't play much early music) can't handle the notes so low on the alto line so it is usually put up an octave with an 8 below clef.
The converter lost the 8 below clefs for the tenor lines so I needed to put those back and also move the alto lines.

Correct recorder clefs would be 8 above for cantus and bass and normal for the alto with the notes an octave higher and normal for the tenor.

Thank you both for your help and advice.

Linda

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