MIDI Output from 2.0

Hello,
I am new to MuseScore. My intended use is to produce sheet music for our church pianist and to import midi from MuseScore into Sonar X2. I found that midi output from the current version (3.1) of MuseScore imported correctly into Sonar X2 sequencer. However, the same score exported to midi from version 2.0 did not import correctly. The imported midi plays once but the sequencer produces no sound after the first time. Apparently, some midi controller passed to the sequencer prevents it from working in Sonar X2. Unfortunately, I was not able to identify the root cause of the problem. Any suggestions to help resolve the issue or how I can provide additional information is appreciated.

Comments

Could you provide all files so the problem can be reproduced? Also state which nightly/beta version of 2.0 you have been using.

Hello Thomas,

Here is the scenario:

MuseScore
1. Create score in MuseScore 2.0 (tested on Beta 1 download and MuseScoreNightly-2014-10-23-1709-fc3ea8e.7z)
- see attached mscz file
2. Create midi using File + Export
- see attached mid file
Sonar X2
3. Create a blank project in Sonar X2
4. Import midi from step 2
5. Insert softsynth (e.g. Dimension Pro x64)
6. Copy tracks from imported midi into the softsynth track using "Paste Special" with option "Paste to one track" checked.

The new track plays correctly once but does not produce sound from then on.

AttachmentSize
Soon And Very Soon.mscz 2.04 KB
Soon And Very Soon.mid 420 bytes
Sonar_X2_Screen.png 72.68 KB

I don't have Sonar, but simply loading the MIDI file you attached into MuseScore shows all the same notes as the original MSCZ file - four measures' worth, nothing more. So the MIDI file itself is fine. If you are having problems after changing softsynths or copying tracks in Sonar, it seems to me the problem must be at that end.

It is indeed.

I do have Sonar X2 and I can confirm indeed that the file does crash the Sonar Softsynth - in my case I was using the SI-String Section to test.

Removing the Pitchbend Sensitivity RPN in the Event List cures the problem.

Expect a pull request to rectify this shortly.

It might be worth dps mentioning this to Cakewalk Support, and sending them the file, because sending an RPN shouldn't cause that!

I am not fluent in midi format specifications so I cannot comment on RPN's and other techno stuff in that arena. However, I have imported midi files in the same manner from many sources and never experienced a behavior quite like this.

For what it is worth, I have narrowed the problem down just a little bit. Only track 1 which is treble staff from the original mscz causes sequencers in Sonar to crash. Track 2, bass clef, behaves perfectly and does not cause any malfunction. Additionally, not all sequencers within Sonar handle the midi data the same.

Example:
Sequencer Dimension Pro x64
Playing track 1 once is okay after that the sequencer is permanently disabled. No other tracks including track 1 will produce sound.
Sequencer Cakewalk Soundcenter 32bit
A noticeable click is audible when play is started for track 1. No other sound is produced after that. When any other track, for instance track 2 (omitting track1), is routed to the sequencer it will play correctly and works correctly for any other track that is routed to that sequencer.

Finally, I have played the culprit Beta midi successfully through some other sequencers, like Anvil, but I am not ready to point my finger at Sonar until I can offer them a little more information. I guess the big question is: why does the same midi exported from MuseScore 3.1 work correctly but midi data exported from the treble staff of MuseScore Beta cause Sonars sequencers to crash.

Thanks for the feedback ChurchOrganist. I don't know what an RPN is but I will forward the midi file and your information regarding RPN code at the beginning of the file to Cakewalk support. If the RPN is valid instruction according to midi format specs then Cakewalk should attempt to handle the instruction or discard it and move on. I will post response from Cakewalk in this thread.
God Bless and Keep On Truckin' :-)

The problem was, as described by ChurchOrganist, 2 RPN's at the beginning of the midi file :

  1. Pitch Bend Sensitivity
  2. Fine Tuning

The response that I received from Cakewalk follows. The response explains the issue in good detail and describes how to resolve the issue within Sonar.

"Thank you for contacting Cakewalk.
I have downloaded the MIDI file that was attached in the link from your previous e-mail. RPN/NRPN messages are generally intended for synths that will play back General MIDI, such as our own Cakewalk TTS-1. VST instruments, on the other hand, (such as SI-Bass Guitar or Dimension Pro), are not necessarily designed to receive and interpret these kinds of MIDI messages. Some of them can, but it is really at the mercy of the soft synth's design, as well as the settings that are configured for that soft synth. For some soft synths, you can tell it to ignore these messages, but if you'd like a soft synth in Sonar to read a MIDI file with this kind of message, the easiest thing to do would be to delete the RPN messages entirely from the MIDI file. This can be done by selecting your MIDI clips in Sonar (Ctrl+A to Select All) then going to Views > Event List, which will list off all the MIDI events in your clips, including the RPN messages at the top of the list. Select each RPN event (they will be displayed in orange) and press the '-' button to get rid of it. This should allow the MIDI files to play back for any VST soft synth inserted in Sonar from here on out, provided that the MIDI tracks with the MIDI files are routed to those soft synths' audio outputs.
We have found that sometimes, MIDI files with these messages will cause certain VST synths to 'choke' upon trying to play the MIDI file back, and the best workaround in this case would be to remove the messages from the files, as described above. This is not necessarily a software issue, but a VST issue since many of them are not designed to interpret these specific messages. To play back these MIDI files in Sonar without any issues, I would make sure that the MIDI tracks are outputting to a General MIDI synth, such as the Cakewalk TTS-1.
"

AttachmentSize
MidiEventList_inSonarX2.png 14.37 KB

Update on the pull request.

Werner wants to replace the two RPNs sent with a Reset All Controllers message.

I shall be implementing that during the next couple of days.

I will let you know when it is merged so you an test with a subsequent nightly build.

Thanks,
I look forward to testing the change for you.

Hi ChurchOrganist,
How is it going with this issue? It is not much of a problem since you showed me how to work around it.

As far as I can tell, the RPNs are still in exported MIDI files. Do we wan to change this?

OH - I thought Igevorse had changed it to a Reset all controllers message.

That was certainly the plan.

Oops, I thought you will change it.
Just sent a pull request.
I removed RPN's and added a 'Reset all controllers' message.

I just downloaded the nightly build and exported a midi to Sonar.
No more crash :-)

Thanks all !

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