excess spacing between staves within a system

• Apr 14, 2015 - 06:02

I'm having a layout problem I can't figure out. Could somebody please take a look at the attached score and tell me what accounts for the excessive space between the Tenor and Bass staves in the systems on page 4, and whether there's some way to fix it? Also, why is there so much space before the final rest in measure 29?


Attachment Size
delight 8 ms 2.mscz 51.49 KB


The extra space between staves is because you have three verses in the third measure on the tenor staff, with verse 1 empty, verse 2 manually moved up to where verse 1 should have been, and verse 3 moved above the staff. Don't use multiple verses for lyrics above staff; just attach the notes to the notes of the other voice, but still in verse 1.

The space before the rest is because in the alto part, the lyric "coat:" has a tab after after it that is taking up space.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanks. I wish I knew how those lyrics got that way, but I've been tinkering with this score on and off for months. Can you tell me, is there a way to inspect the lyrics that I don't know of? For example, how did you discover that the verse 1 lyrics were empty? I'd like to be able to resolve problems like this on my own without having to bother you kind folks.

In reply to by ghicks

So I've fixed the lyric problem I had in m. 29 of this file, and now I've run into another little tiny problem with lyrics in the same file. In m. 31 I have two voices, each of which has lyrics. It appears that the existence of lyrics in voice 1 prevents the proper placement of the hyphen in the word "shoe-string" in voice 2. (Compare the placement of this hyphen on the other staves.) If I delete the voice 1 lyrics then the hyphen moves into the proper location.

This symptom didn't show up in the version of the file I posted yesterday, because I was mistakenly using verse 2 for the lyrics of voice 2, and this didn't conflict with the verse 1 lyrics I was using for voice 1. So I've attached a new copy.

Attachment Size
delight 8 ms 2.mscz 51.05 KB

In reply to by ghicks

1. Delete the lyric 'shoe-'.
This will get rid of the word and also the misplaced hyphen.
2. Enter the lyric 'shoe' without the hyphen. (i.e. select the note, Ctrl+L, type lyric 'shoe')
3. Hit spacebar (to advance to the tied note).
4. Hold Ctrl and type the hyphen.


In reply to by Jm6stringer

Clever, but by default that produces a hyphen that's noticeably shorter and thinner than the standard hyphen. I had to fiddle with different fonts and font sizes before producing a hyphen that looked like the ones in the other staves (15-point Sylfaen is pretty darn close, for what it's worth). It would be nice if there were a solution that just works without the extra fussing.

Is this a bug?

In reply to by ghicks

I think you are right - it is a bug that lyrics in one voice affect hyphen position in another voice,. You should file this this to the issue tracker. A simple example demosntrates it nicely- one measure, eighth notes in voice 1, half notes in voice 2. The issue affects the extender for melisma (underscore) as well.

EDIT: I've filed this as #56471: Lyrics in one voice affect hypen positions in other voices

In reply to by ghicks

Ctrl+R - that's clever. Me, it was trial and error - I double clicked random lyrics and pressed the arrow keys to see which lyrics lines up with which. I also used the trick of right click / Select / More, then seeing what verse was reported.

It helps that I pretty much knew (or well, guessed correctly) that the problem would turn out to be multiple lyric lines. But what I was expecting to find was a single invisible lyric (like, a hard space character or a tab) in verse three somewhere. So I started by hitting the *down* arrow on each lyric looking for ones that maybe had invisible lyrics below. Thsat's when I noticed things getting strange.

In measure 29, tenor staff, you actually have 3 lines of lyrics, 1st line empty 2nd and 3rd containing "pet-ti-coat". Make that 1st and 2nd line, that should fix the staff distance.
No idea about that excess space before the last rest in that measure

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