Move to 2.0.2 (from 1.3) - problems with hairpin cresc and dim
Not easy to describe but I'll try. I sometimes used dynamic cresc and dim (without lines or hairpins) in the 1.3 version. There was no effect on playback, I realise, with or without hairpn. Having transferred the same file to 2.0.2 there are problems on this subject.
In 2.0.2 (say piano section):
(a) Cresc: At the start of the piece and so as to get the playback effect of gradual volume increase, I added a hairpin crescendo and hid it. What I got was full on volume - immediate change to loud. I noticed in Inspector that the Cresc appeared as a dynamic volume 0. To try to solve the problem, I deleted the P at the start and reinstated it in 2.0.2. I also deleted the Cresc, then added a hairpin crescendo and it worked - gradual increase was fine. I then hid the hairpin and inserted a text Cresc (using stave text). It now looks right and sounds right on playback!
Has anyone else experienced this sudden hairpin volume change in a change to 2.0?
(b) Dim: I have done the same above for dim and mostly this has worked using similar steps i.e delete existing dim, use text version of dim plus a hidden hairpin diminuendo. In one case it simply does not work for playback purposes. No change in volume. The only way I can achieve something similar to dim is to 'cheat' - i.e. insert a dynamic such as P and change it to dim, via Inspector, and use the follow text. Not ideal as there is no gradual lowering of volume on playbach as with a hairpin. But better than nothing!
Not sure what else I can try for the dim problem above? Has anyone had a problem where the hairpin simply won't work to influence playback?
Comments
Hard to say for sure without seeing th actual scores, but perhaps your 1.3 score had the hairpins entered incorrectly - attached to one note then simply dragged with the mouse to stretch it out rather than extended via Shift+Right to actually change the end note. That would explain why the crescendo was too fast. Also, "0" is the magic value for "Auto", meaning MsueScore determines how much change in volume autoamtically by looking at the previous and next dynamic marking. So if you don't have appropriate dynamics before and after the hairpin, neither MuseScore nor the human musician reading your score will know how much louder or softer you want to to get.
In reply to Hard to say for sure without by Marc Sabatella
Re (a): The score in 1.3 did not have hairpins. But leaving that aside, I resolved the cresc part in my question (a) so I'm OK with that.
Re (b) This is more puzzling and unresolved. Before the dim hairpin there is a F. Sequence is this: a dynamic F, followed after two bars, by a dim hairpin. Then two bars after the dim hairpin, a dynamic FF? I think a musician singer reading that would understand?
Musescore plays the whole passage as F disregarding the dim, until the FF which is then correctly played louder?
What do I have to do to get it to recognise the dim hairpin in between?
Thanks
In reply to Re (a): The score in 1.3 did by collierr
As I said, it is difficult to help further without seeing the actual score in question. But from you describe, I - speaking as a musician, as well as someone familair with the playback algorithim in MuseScore - don't understand at all. I see an F, then I see a diminuendo, then I see an FF? That seems to be a contradiction. Going from F to FF should involve a crescendo, no
I can *guess* maybe you want people to start getting softer - by some unspecified amount they also have to guess at - and then suddenly get louder at the "FF"? If so - if you want MuseScore or a human musician to understand that this is your intention for the diminuendo - you should place a dynamic marking at the end of it telling everyone just how much quieter. Say, a "pp" or an "mf" or whatever you have in mind.
In reply to As I said, it is difficult to by Marc Sabatella
As you can hear on the attached file, dynamics work so fine with 2.0.0 version (but the known issue that it doesn't work "inside" one note time; you can hear that on the whole note marked with a > diminuendo, the volume level isn't changed into that whole note time).
In reply to As you can hear on the by jotape1960
Not sure my problem is a 'one note' situation? But thank you for that information. Good to know.
As regards question (a) I may well have tried to stretch a cresc hairpin so have noted what Mark says about Shift etc for future reference.
As regards (b) in my experience, many if not most scores will have the scenario I described. My interest is voice/piano and it is very common for composers to not define the extent of a dim. They will indicate that you need to soften slightly after the F - before the climax of the big FF. What is wrong is not to soften at all! The extent of the softening is up to each singer.
What you are suggesting (say, to insert say a P) is too dogmatic in my humble opinion.
Having said that I have now achieved a dim on playback by highlighting dim hairpin, then View/ Inspector and in the element box I increase the 'Velocity Change' from 0 to 30
That creates a dim (in playback) before the climax of FF which is what I wanted. That has now worked! Thanks
In reply to Not sure my problem is a 'one by collierr
Hi!!!
My humble opinion is (according to my experience as a music teacher and church chorus conductor and voice arranger):
1) If the score is only to the human musicians (not using MuseScore as "The Musician"), forget about the dynamics symbols. Your musicians will understand your instructions IN the rehearsals (which are more important than the final performance, because the final performance will be just a reflection of the rehearsals).
2) If you will be going to use MuseScore as "The Musician" (playback all the instrumental parts or just some of them), THEN you need to use dynamics. It is a little harder, but... remember you are the human being, and the computer is just a machine. Who will win the fight? Human or machine? Your deal.
Greetings & Blessings from Curicó, Chile (South America)!!!!!!!
Juan
In reply to Hi!!! My humble opinion is by jotape1960
Thank you for your comments. Much appreciated.
I would like to achieve both of the uses you mention, if possible. So:
(a) for the written or printed score I may sometimes prefer to leave a certain amount of interpretation or spontaneity to the singer or pianist. Less can be more? Certainly a dim instruction on its own (without hairpin) would mean to reduce the volume to a degree at least.
(b) As regards playback, I would like to have the sound be as close as possible to that written or printed score in (a). Therefore, on playback, I would aim to achieve some reduction in volume for a dim on its own. That can be done by inserting and hiding certain dynamics. Or, as in this case or example, I achieved it for playback, by highlighting the 'dim' hairpin, then using Inspector in the element box to increase the 'Velocity Change' from 0 to 30. That gave a dim which was close to my ideal. I then hid the 'dim' hairpin via Inspector.
Hope that makes sense?