Tab note issues
1. Tab notes l-p appear not to be implemented yet. E.g. in bar 9, I need an l, but the highest I can get is k. Another issue that can come up here is that if I want an n and hit n, it takes me out of Note mode. If I hit p, it puts me into keyboard entry mode. Might need an escape sequence, here, like \n or \p. n is quite commonly found in tabs; p and o are uncommon, but they do occur.
2. Bourdon problem: bar 1 of the attached: In Note mode, I cannot directly enter a bourdon because the cursor does not go below the 6th line, despite the fact that the instrument in Staff Properties is given as 8-strings. I can get around this by highlighting another note, like the bass "c" in the next chord, entering Note mode, and using the arrow keys to move the cursor 2 positions below the staff, then hitting "a". It then shows me two slashes, but when I hit , it shows only one slash and is the right note. If I start with an unslashed note below the staff and try to modify by hitting N and trying to move it down, it shows me one slash, but when I hit , it reverts to an unslashed "a". Off by one error?
Comments
Oops, forgot to attach file.
1) is just a matter of defined / undefined short-cuts: short-cuts for tab frets are defined only in the 0-9 range (think of equivalent numbers) as: a) the great majority of TAB users use guitar-like numeric tabs and b) many of the short-cut letters following 'k' are already taken by other commands and the decision has been made not to subvert too much the global programme setup for the sake of a minority of users (which, note, includes myself!).
There are 3 possible ways to enter frets in the range above 'k' without exiting entry mode:
1a) Enter 'k' and then raise the fret pitch with [Shift]+[Up].
1b) As for instance 'l' corresponds to numeric '10', enter '1' and then '0' without moving the note cursor (both numeric and letter entry mode are always active regardless of the tab form); similarly for higher fret letters.
1c) Define your own short-cuts for 'l', 'm', 'n', ..., removing the existent short-cuts for other commands. This may require a bit of planning and care, but is a one-time operation.
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About 2), I cannot replicate in your score (or in other similar scores of mines) any of the strange behaviours you describe:
2a) In note entry mode, I can reach the 7th and 8th string from whatever note.
2b) I am not sure to understand your description about slashes: when the string cursor moves to the 7th string, there is no slash (nor should be).
By pressing [Down] once more the cursor gets one slash (as it should); by entering a note, the note itself has a slash of its own; perhaps, this gives you the impression of two slashes? One is of the cursor (and moves with it), one is of the entered note and remains there.
As they have a different alignment than a double slash and the cursor slash even has a different colour, I didn't anticipate they could be mistaken for a double slash; perhaps the cursor slash can be made of an even lighter colour? (currently it uses the same colour of the ghost note following the mouse in note entry).
Or do you refer to something different?
In reply to 1) is just a matter of by Miwarre
Thanks for the data on entering higher frets. I am on a learning curve.
On #2, Maybe I am using a different version of Musescore. I am using 2.1.0 rev. 0dd5267. Which one are you using?
In reply to Thanks for the data on by sgerbode
For the record, there is no 2.1.0. What you are using is an experimental nightly build of what may eventually - after much more work and testing - becomes MuseScore 2.1. The current official release is 2.0.2.
In reply to Thanks for the data on by sgerbode
Marc's remark reminds me of a rather important detail:
Point 1) above (entering frets above 'k') refers to any 2.x version, while point 2) (bourdons) only applies to unstable UNRELEASED development versions only (a.k.a. nightly).
I could not reconstruct when your 0dd5267 version dated from; right now I'm using September 30 master (SHA 643cefc), but this part of the code (bourdon entry and display) did not change since its original implementation on August 17th, so I doubt one or another specific nightly from then to today makes any significant difference for this feature.
However, I still do not understand completely your description: are you saying that you cannot reach the bass strings while in measure 1, but you can while in other measures?
In reply to Marc's remark reminds me of a by Miwarre
Yeah, I picked up that version from Jean Bernard Roy. Apparently that version of musescore was made by Peter Schepers on Sep28. Jean sent the link to me so I could try out some beaming options.
Are you saying that the bourdon entry and the beaming should be working in the Sep 30 nightly or subsequent ones?
In Scheper's version, I cannot reach the bourdons with mouse entry in any measure, not just the first.
In reply to Yeah, I picked up that by sgerbode
Well, I guess the main point here is the word "mouse", and that this is a misunderstanding of the entry of the bass strings. Or rather than sgerbode, he will confirm to you, tries to reproduce with MuseScore the behavior of Fronimo program. Indeed, with this program, the mouse can place the insertion point of the cursor directly below the Tab staff, ie in a blank space. Like this.
![fronimo.jpg]( "fronimo.jpg")
![musescore.jpg]( "musescore.jpg")
![top line.jpg]( "top line.jpg")
![basses strings.jpg]( "basses strings.jpg")
With MuseScore, it works differently. The insertion point with the mouse can not move beyond the bottom line in a Tab staff (whatever the strings number of the instrument)
So I suppose sgerbode, first, has tried to entering the bass strings, and therefore he could not get by this way.
Said another way (and without using the mouse), the insertion point of the cursor, after selecting a measure and hit Note input mode, appears on the top line.
If one wants first to enter the bass strings, simply long press Down arrow to go and input the "field" of bass strings.
A habit to take, as other habits when you are in learning curve with a new programm.
In reply to Yeah, I picked up that by sgerbode
"I guess the main point here is the word "mouse"": INDEED!
Entry of bourdons with the mouse is not supported (and will not be for any foreseeable future), not only because they are outside of the staff area, but mainly because they are all at the same vertical position (all in the 7th position), so there is no way to guess which bourdon the user is aiming at.
Let me take the occasion to say that mouse entry in TABs is quite inefficient and is supported only for analogy with standard staves and only as long as it 'fits' the global tab code model.
So, I think the answer to your point 2) is "by design".
In reply to "I guess the main point here by Miwarre
Now running MuseScore 2.0.2, rev f51dc11, just downloaded and installed.
Starting from the attached file, under "Staff Properties", it is set to "number of strings = 8", and instrument "Luth à 8 choeurs".
I enter Note mode. Cursor goes to first chord, top line. I hit down arrow, but the cursor won't go below the bottom line. I want to enter the eighth course /a but don't know how to do so.
What am I doing wrong?
In reply to Now running MuseScore 2.0.2, by sgerbode
Addendum: Running Musescore Oct 1 nightly build 2.1.0 rev e342fda on the same file, I find I *can* use arrow keys to position the cursor. So is this possible in 2.1.0 but not in 2.0.2?
When I do this, I do see the "ghostly" extra slash that appears in note entry mode (the one that shows me which bourdon I am about to edit) but disappears when I exit that mode. It probably would be better if that ghostly slash were to disappear when I enter the actual note, so it does not look like a double slash on that note. I haven't yet tried to work with more than 8 courses.
In reply to Addendum: Running Musescore by sgerbode
I believe the feature you are referirng to is indeed not in any official release but only in experimental builds for a future release. See https://musescore.org/en/node/67261. I think this is what you are referring to?
In reply to Addendum: Running Musescore by sgerbode
" It probably would be better if that ghostly slash were to disappear when I enter the actual note, so it does not look like a double slash on that note.":
I am not sure it would be better in general; for instance, I believe the "input slash(es)" should anyway reappear if the cursor is then moved to the right or the left to show that the target string is still a diapason (and which one) and they should reappear regardless the new position is empty or already occupied by a note (potentially on a different diapason). Otherwise it would seem that the target string moves up and down simply by moving left / right. So, I have the impression that toggling the input slashes on and off could in the end be more confusing than helpful.
So, at the moment I believe it would be clearer to 'simply' differentiate more the look of the input slashes from the look of entered note slashes, for instance by making the former of a lighter colour than now (they are already lighter than the note slashes, but perhaps not enough).
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Finally, yes the bourdon support has been added after ver. 2.0.2 has been released and it is currently only present in nightly. I supposed you were aware of this, as you participated to the discussion for defining the feature implementation. It will be included in ver. 2.1, when it will be released.
In reply to " It probably would be better by Miwarre
That works for me; your point is well taken. So even if there is, say an /a in the bourdon slot, when I position the cursor over it, I want to be able to see what is *going* to be put there (like //a, ///a, etc. I like the idea of making it a bit more different than it is, though.
I have not yet tried to put in bourdons beyond the 8th course (on 2.1).
À propos of nothing, do you play lyra viol music? I have some on my site that could possibly interest you. I made arrangements of these for lute, but kept the originals on the site as well. You can find these pieces on my spreadsheet by searching for "lyra viol" and "lyra_viol". Also, does MuseScore handle special viol notations like bow marks, as in Marin Marais? Fronimo does not.
In reply to That works for me; your point by sgerbode
"when I position the cursor over it, I want to be able to see what is *going* to be put there (like //a, ///a, etc.": exactly, this is the idea.
I like the idea of making it a bit more different than it is, though.: it will come rather soon (in the nightly, as always!)
"do you play lyra viol music?": yes, occasionally; it is not a kind I like over other parts of the viol repertoire, but it is definitely part of it.
"does MuseScore handle special viol notations like bow marks, as in Marin Marais?": viol bowing indications are simple "p" and "t" texts; I use regular staff texts for them (with a custom text style to speed up size and placement format).
Ornaments are less straightforward and almost none of them is actually present in MuseScore. Some of them, like the comma-shaped tremblement or the (more or less slanted) x-shaped battement, are common with lute repertoire and included in SMuFL; I plan to add them (for both tabs and standard staves) sooner or later.
Other are specific to French viol music, like the wavy pincé and plainte and I have made some SVG drawings to be able to use them.