Ornaments, for lute and in general

• Feb 12, 2016 - 22:57

As far as I see, there are no ornaments for lute configured currently.
It would be very good to have this at least in the 2.1. (master nightly) - at least I would appreciate that very much.

It is possible to fix this manually by using symbols, but this approach has some disadvantages:
There is no connection to sound/musical meaning (which I wouldn't need in fact, but could help when transforming the music to other instruments)
and also it is not possible to insert them with short keys.

At the moment it is possible to use palettes and to copy many ornaments via copy & paste (also per keys), and often they even are place in the before used place for the new notes.

Some wishes for ornamentation:
- It would be good to have a concept, that allows to combine symbols with the musical ornamentation (e.g. use different signs for appogiatura in different sources) and save it in palettes
- Also it would make sense to have the possibility to place ornaments/symbols right, left or under note/tablature signs (which is the normal way for placing ornaments in historical lute prints and manuscripts, probably also in historical keyboards
- It also would be good to have the possibility of changing the size of ornaments

Probably these are too many wishes at once, but I think they would help to make ornamentation of musescore more flexible than it is even now.


Comments

Could you explain which specific ornaments you'd like to see?

Also, if you are not aware, you can customize your palettes as shown in the Handbook under "Custom palette". The sizes of most musical symbols is fixed according to normal standards, but if you need ona different size, you can create it as text and insert the symbol via the F2 "Special Characters" palette.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you very much!
The customized palettes I can handle in the meantime.
The last thing I didn't know, but also works pretty good, as it is possible to add them to a palette in a chosen font size. But unfortunately it doesn't seem to be possible to place them from the palette by double-clicking or dragging ... (remark: double-clicking is possible, but as when testing this, the sign was place somewhere far away).

So probably the only real requests are the combining to musical meaning and additional placings (beside a tab sign: left/right/below/over), that should be possible to save with a palette.

In the attached picture you can see most of the ornaments I use (this was a Falckenhagen, late baroque). Some of them mean different things in other manuscripts - because of that it would be good to have the flexibility to combine different symbols with different musical meanings.
Two explanations:
The long vertical dash is placed between the bass and the melody note/chord (Bass and melody notes to be played simultaneously).
Opposite to this diagonal lines between bass and other notes of a chord mean that these notes have to be arpeggiated (this line should be bigger than the following one, which is placed before the notes (see example) and probably means that these notes have to be played later in rhythm.

Further one problem is, that sometimes a long diagonal line is used for basses to be hold (sometimes also for barree). You can use slurs for that, but it is not really good. Here a further solution is necessary.

BTW - these ornaments should also be present in parts.
1. List of ornaments (pretty complete)
BaroqueLuteOrnaments.png
2. Ornament table of the late baroque, which gives some examples (Beyer, Gellerts Oden)
Beyer_Tabelle.jpg
3. Diagonal lines - French Renaissance print
FrenchRenaissanceLine.png
4. Reusner: Here you can see even some other signs (not only ornaments, but also playing signs):
short diagonal line, last notes of first measure; 2nd measure a long diagonal line for holding of the notes; and in the second line left of the first chord a dashed line meaning to play the chord with the index of the right hand.
Here the appogiatura from below is a bow under the tab sign (in my table the bow is left of the note)
ReusnerOrnaments.png

In reply to by Miwarre

Thank you - it is good to hear from you again on lute topics, Miwarre (or should I better write Mauricio?).
Yes, I know about this thread (had been posting there also ;-) ).
But here I asked for some things, that are related to the ornament topic: especially the possibility to define sizes, key short cuts and the musical meaning of symbols.
It seems important to me, to have a flexible way of defining these ornaments, as especially for lute - and probably also for historic sources of other instruments too, different ornaments had been used in different sources and different times.

Markus

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