Musescore 2.0 and Jackadio

• Sep 16, 2014 - 22:07

Musescore 2.0 and Jackaudio/midi seem not to be compatible.
Please see attached ODT file.
Thank you for feedback because without midi Musescore is drastically less relevant.

Attachment Size
MS2.0+Jackaudio(2).odt 119.91 KB

Comments

• Sep 16, 2014 - 22:51

Hello.
I'm using Musescore 2.0 beta 1 version on Windows 7 Pro.
I tried to run Musescore with Jackaudio for midi output and the JackportAudio interface displayed as indicated in the ODT file I attached to my post.
No midi events were sent by Musescore.
For technical details displayed by JackPortAudio please see my attached ODT file.
Thanks a lot for your answer.
Best regards

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• Sep 22, 2014 - 12:54

Well, what I can say is that Jackaudio works perfectly with Musescore 1.3 running on Windows XP-32 bits as well as on Windows 7 -64 bits Pro and Familiy. So, Jackaudio appears to be allright on all three Windows platforms. Musescore 2.0 is functioning well on Windows 7 Pro and Family-64 bits but without Jackaudio only. The trouble starts with Musescore 2.0 and Jackaudio together running on Windows 7 -64 bits Pro and/or Family. So it seems that Musescore 2.0 is not ‘talking’ properly to Jackaudio whatever the Windows platform. I suggest that other Musescore users posting on this forum make a test with Musescore 2.0 and Jackaudio and report here as quick as possible. This would advance things for this wonderful soft which is Musescore.

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• Sep 22, 2014 - 19:29

Hi, leonardus.
Sorry for the late answer.
I've been working on JACK this summer, so feel free to ask questions about it.
While implementing I've tested Jack MIDI Out in MuseScore in Windows XP 32 bit and it worked well.

I am going to test it tomorrow with Windows 7 32 bit to see what's wrong. Running "mscore -O" outputs all midi events to the console while playback, so if you will see this comment before I'll write an additional one, please try running "mscore -O" and see if MuseScore outputs anything. It may happen that MuseScore sends midi events, but it's output is not connected to anything.

I see that you worked with JACK before, so I hope you run jackd with additional "-X winmme", checked "Use JACK MIDI" in MuseScore's Preferences->I/O and connected all ports properly via QJackCtl. Also checking "Verbose" in your jack_configuring_app may help with debugging.

Also, to make things simpler, please uncheck "Use JACK Transport" and "Timebase master" in Preferences->I/O.

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• Sep 23, 2014 - 13:07

Hello Igevorse,
Thanks for your answer. I don’t doubt a single second that you will find the solution to the MS2.0/Jackaudio mystery under Windows 7 both 32 and 64 bits. As I posted before, Musescore 1.3 with Jack are working perfectly under XP-32 bits as well as Windows 7-64 bits. I tried MS 2.0 with exactly the same Jack configuration as with MS 1.3 (X-winmme etc…unchecking also Timebase Master) and got the Jack Portaudio error messages as shown in the attached Jpg file to my previous post. Incidentally I noticed that Jackaudio is not always detecting the midi ports in the same order, which obliges to reconfigure each time the Qjackctl, but this has of course nothing to do with Musescore itself. I leave it up to you to see the midi output through Mscore-O as I don’t have the possibility to do this. Me and the millions of Musescore users are awaiting anxiously the final results of your investigations.
With best regards.

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• Sep 23, 2014 - 16:03

I've tested JACK Midi Out feature on Windows XP and it works.
Version: MuseScore 2.0 nightly, commit d9331b6.
Tested connection: MuseScore -> JACK Midi -> Foo YC20.
Result: bug is not confirmed.

You can see MuseScore, JACK and QjackCtl settings/preferences in the attached screenshots.

If you still have some problems with JACK Midi, please share your JACK, MuseScore and QjackCtl settings. I can't help you without additional information.

Some hints:
1. Try to reproduce my connection with Foo YC20. If it works, you might have some problems not with MuseScore, but with your system/other apps.
2. Share your configuration screenshots.
3. Try to avoid additional steps in your connection. You wrote something about using intermediate LoopBE interface, exclude it for a while.

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screen1.PNG 117.04 KB
screen2.PNG 21.46 KB
screen3.PNG 37.99 KB

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• Sep 24, 2014 - 13:27

Hi Igevorse,
The trouble is not with Windows XP but with Windows 7-64 bits. According to your previous post you were to test MS 2.0 with Windows 7 and not with Windows XP.
Please find attached the different screenshots showing what is happening. Jackportaudio starts to display errors only and immediately upon opening of Musescore 2.0. I state again that this same Jackaudio configuration works perfectly with Muscore 1.3 . I also point out that Musescore 2.0 running under Windows 7-64 bits WITHOUT Jackaudio also works fine. Hope this all helps.

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Preferences I_O.png 178.34 KB
JackdSetup.png 679.5 KB
Jackcontrol.png 174.5 KB
Jackportaudio1.png 485.99 KB
Jackportaudio2.png 186.22 KB

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• Sep 24, 2014 - 14:30

I have it working fine here on Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit

These two pictures show the audio and MIDI connections required.

JACKAudioConnections.png
JACKMidiConnections.png

The first time I tried it it crashed with messages similar to those leonardus describes.

The second time I set it up after restarting the JACK server everything worked fine.

It is possible that things have to be done in a certain order?

This suggests that problem may well be in JACK and not MuseScore.

It is known as pretty buggy on Windows systems

My version of JACK? 1.9.9.5

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JACKAudioConnections.png 21.12 KB
JACKMidiConnections.png 20.57 KB

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• Sep 24, 2014 - 16:35

Well Igevorse, I did exactly what you suggested (disconnect Audio tab of qjackctl)and here are the screenshots showing the results. Jackport Audio 1 shows things after opening of Musescore 2.0 and Jackportaudio 2 shows what happens after running a score.
Don't hesitate to ask me for more tests. Best Rgds.

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Preferences I_O.png 184.25 KB
Jackcontrol(1).png 181.58 KB
Jackcontrol(2).png 184.34 KB
Jackportaudio1.png 188.6 KB
Jackportaudio2.png 177.47 KB

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• Sep 24, 2014 - 17:37

Well I have just had JACK running OK on a Virtual Machine running Windows 7 Ultimate linking MuseScore 2 beta to Foo YC20 via Qjackctl, and correctly receiving MIDI output.

So there is a problem to do with your system.

There is no system midi input on my system, however, and I am wondering whether this could be the key to your problem.

What is system_midi? Is it a hardware interface on your machine? A software interface linking to the Microsoft MIDI mapper?

I think the answer to this may be significant.

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• Sep 24, 2014 - 18:06

Thanks for the test!
System_midi is a standard system synthesizer in Windows, as I understand.
When I connect MuseScore's midi out to it, I have no sound. That's why I recommended leonardus to test it with Foo YC20 to be sure that we can get an output.
ChurchOrganist, could you please write your Windows 7 version (32/64 bit) and JACK version?

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• Sep 24, 2014 - 18:15

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
JACK version 1.9.9.5

It's beginning to look as though the system_midi is the problem.

There is no system_midi option in my Windows 7 Virtual Machine, perhaps because it is running on a Windows 8.1 host?

I am currently exploring ways of connecting sequencers to MuseScore via JACK in Windows.

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• Sep 24, 2014 - 22:22

Here is Leonardus again. I just updated my Jackaudio version to 1.9.10 and tested it with MS 2.0.
Unfortunately things are even worse now. As with Jack version 1.9.9 Portaudio displays errors upon starting of Musescore but when from thereon running a score Portaudio even crashes.
I tested this new Jackaudio version with Musescore 1.3 and then everything was working perfectly.
As far as i understand ChurchOrganist is working with Windows 8 and Windows 7 as a host.
Maybe would we need someone running only Windows 7 to make another test with Musescore 2.0 and Jackaudio. This would permit to see if things are due to my local system or not.

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• Sep 25, 2014 - 13:02

Hello Igevorse and Churchorganist,
I found a second computer with Windows 7-64 bits (in the office where I’m working) and tried out Musescore 2.0 with Jackaudio again this time with F00YC20. Unfortunately the results were the same as before with Jackportaudio displaying the same errors and there was no organ sound though I connected Musescore with F00 through JacControl. See the attached Jpg screenshot. The used Jack version was 1.9.9.
I tried the same with Musescore 3.1 and it all worked perfectly.

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Jack+FooYC20.png 263.69 KB

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• Sep 25, 2014 - 17:19

TBH I'm not really sure why you are pursuing this.

There is virtually no JACK compatible software on the Windows platform. None of the sequencers I have tried will talk to JACK for MIDI input.

In fact JACK is a bit of a dead end on Windows, I have had a look for compatible sound-sources, sequencers and MIDI connection kits. As far as I can see none of the mainstream products will connect to JACK.

As it is so easy to use a Linux distro like Ubuntu Studio in a virtual machine these days, it makes more sense to use the better JACK compatibility of Linux then poke around trying to get things to work on Windows.

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• Sep 25, 2014 - 17:27

Using a virtual midi cable, you should be able to connect to any VSTi on Windows.

Of course, Jack is primarly a linux software (like MuseScore) but associating Jack with "dead end" and "buggy software" is not helping anyone. If Jack doesn't work correctly on Windows, and you know why, report bugs to the jack developers. It's a lot more constructive.

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• Sep 25, 2014 - 23:29

Dear Iasonic and Churchorganist,
Firstly I am positively and constructively trying since a couple of days to report all my tests with Musescore 2,0 using Jackaudio for midi output. See my previous threads on this point. I have never been talking about Jackaudio as a buggy software. On the contrary I clearly pointed out several times that jackaudio was perfectly working with Musescore 1,3. On demand of Igevorse I attached each time screenshots permitting him to see what was happening. I even made tests on a second computer running Windows 7-64 bits as up to now we found nobody to do so. Churchorganist tested with Windows 7 as a host in Windows 8 and than apparently things were working. So for now I was simply awaiting Igevorse's answer to my last test. We are just trying to understand why Musescore 2,0 is not working correctly under Windows 7 while using Jackaudio.
I am not abandoning things easily and therefore kept on trying and trying. I also definitely stick to Windows as I built up a whole little soft studio working fine and using of course a virtual Midi cable (LoopBe1). Musescore is a very useful and userfrienly software and version 2,0 is really promising.Hope this clarifies things for both of you.

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• Sep 25, 2014 - 23:48

OK :)

I'm perfectly willing to try and help you work out what is wrong.

I think we probably need more details about your setup.

You mention LoopBE. What else do you have on your system?

I will try to see if I can get LoopBE working with JACK on my Windows 8 system tomorrow.

I think part of the problem may be that Microsoft changed the whole MIDI engine in Windows 8 and maybe there is some fallout from that.

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• Sep 26, 2014 - 12:31

Light dawns :)

I didn't have MIDI enabled in JACK

I am beginning to think the problem is with LoopBE.

I have just successfully used Tobias Erichsen's LoopMIDI to route MIDI data from MuseScore 2 via JACK to Sonar X2 and record a 5 step scale in Windows 8 Pro

Trying to use LoopBE for the same thing was resulting in the same error messages leonardus was receiving.

Why there should be a clash with LoopBE I do not know.

All I can say is routing via JACK with LoopMIDI works and trying to do the same thing with LoopBE results in JACK crashing.

My suggestion to Leonardus is to uninstall LoopBE, install LoopMIDI and see if he is getting error messages.

Ultimately we need to establish why MuseScore 2 is having this effect on LoopBE and 1.3 is not.

But we appear to have a workaround.

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• Sep 26, 2014 - 13:45

Hello Churchorganist,
Following your suggestion I installed LoopMidi instead of LoopBe1. Things worked absolutely fine with Musescore 1.3, but gave the same negative results with Musescore 2.0. The same error messages on Jackportaudio and Jack stopping to function. So the problem did not come from LoopBe1.
Since I made tests on a second computer running Windows 7-64 bits and Musescore 2.0 having still the same difficulties with Jackaudio for Midi output on this Windows platform whatever the virtual Midi cable , I think the case is clearly identified now though not solved yet. The Musescore team asked us to tests Musescore 2.0 beta1 and to report eventual bugs and that’s what we did. Musescore deserves it. It’s now up to the Musescore developers to see what is happening. As things are working perfectly on your Windows 8 system, I think it is not necessary for you and me to dig further on this case. The problem clearly is with MS 2.0+Windows 7 + Jackaudio

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• Sep 26, 2014 - 14:30

Hi, leonardus,
Thanks for your tests and patience!
ChurchOrganist, thanks for your investigation and testing on platforms that I can't test.
I have only two options: there is a bug in MuseScore or JACK. It is very strange that this feature in MuseScore works on all platforms except Windows 7 64 bits.
I will explore the code of MuseScore 1.3 deeper and understand why it works.
MuseScore 2.0 has several new JACK features implemented, adn JACK-related part of code became more complex.
Exploring the code could take some time.
Thanks for the reporting the problem.

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• Sep 26, 2014 - 16:43

FWIW, I have a Windows 7 64-bit system and I would be happy to test to but I have *no idea whatsoever* of how to use Jack.

If someone gives me a step by step series of instructions to follow, I'm happy to try it out under the debugger and report what I find.

So far, I have installed Jack (did that last summer), but when I start museScore, it reports "jack server is not running or cannot be started" on the console window. I recall at one time a few months ago that the error message reported a pathname, and it appeared to be the wrong pathname - like it was attempting execute a 32-bit version instead of a 64-bit version or vice versa.

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• Sep 26, 2014 - 17:38

I already have jack installed and as far as I know, it's running. I just have no real idea what it does. So I'm looking for instructions on *what do I do now*. I start MuseScore- done. What does I do next in order to see this crash that apparently happens on Windows 7 64-bit systems?

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• Sep 26, 2014 - 19:32

You shouldn't start MuseScore first.

Make sure you have the LoopBE or LoopMIDI driver installed - I could not make a successful connection without error messages using LoopBE - which I'm currently thinking might be a MIDI loop (feedback) problem.

1. Start Jack Portaudio - this starts the Jack Audio server - you will find a terminal window opens providing information.
2. Open Jack Control - this is where you you make connections between devices.
3. Open the Connect window - you should see a list of places you can connect to/from in the Audio tab.
4. Click the MIDI tab - check to see whether there is a device called system_midi. If not you need to go back to the instructions I gave the link to and follow the instructions in the last section.

5. Start MuseScore 2 and configure it to run via Jack, then close it and restart
6. Examine the Jack Portaudio terminal window and see if there are error messages.
7. Start a sequencer (I tried Anvil to start with)
8. Now go to Jack's Connect window and connect MuseScore output to the playback_2 device in system_midi
9. Enter a few notes into MuseScore then select them and click Loop then click the play button.

If you are using Anvil you can now use its MIDI monitor to check for MIDI output from MuseScore.

Anvil appears to show MIDI output from LoopBE all the time MuseScore is semding data, whether there are error messages in the Jack terminal window or not.

I wasn't able to get Anvil to record the MIDI stream, either from LoopBE or LoopMIDI but I was able to record with Sonar X2 be creating 2 LoopMIDI ports and routing playback_2 to In and playback_3 to Out - this is what is making me wonder whether there is a MIDI feedback problem with LoopBE.

HTH

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 03:05

I tried following these steps - starting with the "pre-step" of installing LoopMIDI. At step 1, I looked at the Jack PortAudio window and saw error messages about ASIO::ASIO4ALL, which I had added to the command line following the listed instructions. I chose to ignore that and go on. When I got to step 4, I didn't have system_midi listed, so I went and re-installed Jack according to the instructions you linked to, then rebooted, and tried again - still no system_midi. I decided to go on anyhow.

At step 6 - looking at the Jack PortAudio window after having set MuseScore to use Jack then restarting it - there were a ton of messages. paOutputUnderflow, paInputOverflow, time_out, ProcessGraphSync: Process error, etc. Again, I elected to go on.

After starting Anvil, I looked at the Jack Connect window. I now see mscore listed both as readable and as writeable clients. Nothing else shows in that window, however. So I didn't see a way to interpret step 8. Again, I went on :-). But after step 9, I went to Anvil and have no idea how to find a MIDI monitor.

That's my experience on Window 7 64-bit.

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 22:53

Hello Marc,
As I see you found it complicated to install this Jackaudio interface to have a Midi output on Musescore. This is exactly what I was saying to you in the very beginning of this discussion about Musescore ans Jackaudio. Lots of people like you find it difficult to install this Jack interface and probably renounce to do it. Therefore they don't benefit of the numerous possibilities given by Midi such as connecting Musescore to an electronic piano for instance or other Midi software like Softsamplers or even to an acoustic piano having Midi codes making the piano keys hit the strings. You imagine, you run a Sabatella MS score and your acoustic piano starts to play the composition! Remember I was insisting on native Midi in and out for Musescore and indeed maybe one day Musescore will have it, though there seems to be a Midi in option already.
Now with Igevorse we are trying to understand why Musescore 2.0 is not working properly via Jackaudio whilst MS 1.3 is doing fine. I found it perfectly logical that Igevorse wanted to compare the Jack code in MS 1.3 (which works fine on each Windows platform) with the Jackcode in MS 2.0 (which doen't seem to work on the Windows 7-64 bit platform.). I am now going to take contact again with Igevorse for a last test I didn't do yet.

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 00:28

The thing is, I'd find it just as complicated to set up some sort of VST system, or whatever that is called. I never could be bothered with Garrison when I used Finale because is was far too complicated to set up. For me and most other users, the built in playback hits the right combination of quality and convenience already. And I'd much higher rather see development effort going to what is truly important and would make a difference to the most people using notation software - and that is notation, playback.

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 01:23

Ah, some people want all of it and I am of those. But as Musescore 2.0 was announced to have improved Jackaudio and as it seems not to work properly on the Windows 7-64 bit platform, I'm trying with others to help developer Igevorse find out what's happening. This also has to do with Musescore's reputation. And still, listening to the Garritan demo within Finale and then comparing with the built in playback in Musescore.........

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 02:28

To be clear: I am absolutely in favor of people working together to understand why you are having problems with Jack in 2.0 Beta - whether it is a bug in MuseScore, a bug in Jack, or something else about your system that is causing it to not work for you. And then of course, I am absolutely in favor of people working together to make sure it works before release.

I was responding more to the idea you expressed here:

http://musescore.org/en/node/30771#comment-142021

My response to that remains: Jack *does* work in general. We are *not* going to abandon the many months of effort that has gone into supporting it, nor are we going to delay the release of 2.0 by a year or more to implement a radically new and far more complex playback scheme such as native MIDI out or VSTi. If there is a compatibility issue on Windows 7 that turns out to be MuseScore's fault (still far from certain, apparently), we should work together to fix it, so that 2.0 *does* work as expect and releases in a reasonable time frame. Work on MIDI out or VSTi or whatever can take place later, but it simply *cannot* be a priority for 2.0

And FWIW, if you are thinking that either Jack support or native MIDI out support is magically going to improve the quality of MuseScore's playback without a *significant* investment of time, effort, and/or money on the part of the user, I think you will find that view is misplaced in most cases. There are many reasons why MuseScore's output is not as good as it could be, and neither Jack nor native MIDI out even *begins* to address the more fundamental issues (eg, continuous controller support, playback off slurs, more articulations & ornaments, easier / more direct control over playback parameters, etc). In order to really significantly improve on the quality of output, you will need to hand-massage the output data in a third party program to a pretty great extent. To the extent working on playback improvements makes sense, I'd much rather see effort going toward addressing these fundamental issues so that you don 't need to install and configure potentially expensive third party software/hardware to get better results. Instead, playback improvements should be for *everyone*, not the select few who choose to invest their time, energy, and money in third party add-ons.

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• Sep 26, 2014 - 23:10

Hello Marc,
If you follow the instructions enumerated by Churchorganist in his last thread under "you should not start Musescore first" than you will be able to make a test like I did and see if you get the same errror messages in the Jackportaudio window. But anyway, I tested it on 2 different computers already running Windows 7-64 bit using different Jackaudio versions and different virtual Midi cables both with negative results which I reported to Igevorse.This seemed to be enough for him for the identification of the problem and he will now have a closer look at the Musescore code both versions 1.3 and 2.0.( see Igevorse's last thread).

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 01:50

I think you are reaching a bit here. Saying that one can try to look at the 1.3 sources to try to figure out why it works but 2.0 doesn't is kind of like saying we we know which haystack to look for the needle in - it's miles away from actually being able to solve the problem.

So did you follow the *exact* series of steps in the post above? If not, can you close everything and do so - follow those steps precisely with nothing added and nothing omitted - then tell at which step exactly you encounter a problem and how exactly you know there is a problem (eg, what you expected to see happen, what happened instead).

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 08:37

@Marc Sabatella:
"FWIW, I have a Windows 7 64-bit system and I would be happy to test to but I have *no idea whatsoever* of how to use Jack."
Thanks! This could help us a lot.
" What does I do next in order to see this crash that apparently happens on Windows 7 64-bit systems?"
The goal is not to get crash, it sometimes happens with JACK. But the goal is to get working MIDI Out from MuseScore. That was the problem of leonardus.

The list of steps written by ChurchOrganist is too complex. I think there is no need to test LoopBE and LoopMidi since we don't know if MuseScore outputs midi events.

Here is my list:
1. Install Foo YC20 (Would gelp us to "hear" our midi output).
2. Enable MIDI in JACK: Open properties of your shortcut of "Jack PortAudio", add "-R -S -X winmme -d portaudio"
enabling_midi_in_jack.PNG
3. Run JACK by clicking this shortcut "Jack PortAudio".
4. Run MuseScore and Foo YC20. Add a couple of notes to your score.
5. Run Jack Control and press "Connect".
On the "MIDI" tab connect mscore-midi-1 port to "Foo Y20:midi in". Do not connect anything to system_midi, it may not work.
screen1.PNG
On the "Audio" tab connect all outputs of Foo Y20 to system::playback1 and playback2.
screen2.PNG
6. Click "Play" in MuseScore.
Now you should hear the sounds if your JACK is configured well.

"Saying that one can try to look at the 1.3 sources to try to figure out why it works but 2.0 doesn't is kind of like saying we we know which haystack to look for the needle in - it's miles away from actually being able to solve the problem."
Agree. These screens of JACK logs give more a bit more than nothing. They do not help to figure out what's the problem. Further tests on different machines could help. Without tests, it is really about looking for a needle.

Marc Sabatella, could you please make a test with my list of steps?

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enabling_midi_in_jack.PNG 27.74 KB
screen1.PNG 117.04 KB
screen2.PNG 21.46 KB

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 09:24

The problem here is Maxim that after Windows XP there is no inbuilt system MIDI interface.

In their wisdom Microsoft's developers decided that MIDI was a "legacy" protocol and would not be supported.

Fortunately in Windows 7 it is still there under the hood, but with no access for configuration.

If you are running Windows 8, however, you must have LoopMIDI or LoopBE installed or JACK won't even start with MIDI enabled.

I just set up as you suggested in my Virtual Box installation of Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit.

The first time I opened MuseScore JACK crashed, so I stopped it, closed JACK Portaudio, reopened it and restarted it and this time when I opened MuseScore there was no crash or error messages.

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 12:45

Let me generalize:
You tested on Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, JACK version 1.9.9.5, MuseScore 2.
You tested a midi connection from MuseScore to Foo Y20/Anvil and you got the sound (with MuseScore Jack Audio turned off).
Based on this we can confirm that there is no bug in MuseScore 2 and MIDI Out via JACK works in Windows 7 64bit, right?

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 14:16

I have now tried on the Windows 7 virtual machine with first of all LoopBE.

Result: Starting Musescore crashed JACK and no MIDI output was sent to Anvil

Next stage was to unbinstall LoopBE and connect MuseScore direct to system_midi playback_1

Result: Musescore sent its MIDI output stream successfully to the Microsoft GS Softsynth, and there were no error messages on starting MuseScore.

I then installed LoopMIDI and set up a single virtual port

Result: MuseScore caused a few overflow messages to appear in the JACK terminal but it did not crash. Anvil's MIDI monitor successfully picked up MuseScore's MIDI output when it was connected to playback_2.

My conclusion - there is some kind of clash going on between MuseScore 2, LoopBE and JACK

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• Sep 27, 2014 - 22:54

Hello Churchorganist,
This is Leonardus again. I agree with you to say that your tests on a virtual Windows 7 system under Windows 8 might not be entirely relevant for our problem. Having a closer look at all your tests I also came to the conclusion that maybe LoopBe is not Windows 8 compatible. To find this out you could try to run Sonar with Anvil directly via LoopBe WITHOUT connecting Jackaudio
as these two softs both have native Midi (LoopBe on Sonar talking to LoopBe on Anvil). It could also be that Musescore and Foo organ perfectly match on your system because these two softs both have a Jackaudio implementation (Jackaudio talking to Jackaudio). I will now take contact again with Igevorse and propose to make a last test on my Windows 7-64 bit platform that is: remove LoopBe from my computer and try Musescore 2.0 with Foo only. Will revert. Brgds

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 07:12

Hi, Leonardus.
I will be glad to see the results of this test. According the results of ChurchOrgsnist it should work.
Maybe you do not need to remove LoopBe, but simply don't run it?
"It could also be that Musescore and Foo organ perfectly match on your system because these two softs both have a Jackaudio implementation (Jackaudio talking to Jackaudio)."
Doesn't LoopBe have a support of Jack?

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 08:52

Maxim LoopBE is a MIDI driver it runs automatically when you start Windows.

You can't turn it on and off.

LoopMIDI on the other hand, whilst it is also a driver does not launch until you activate it.

@Leonardus I don't theink LoopBE is incompatible with Windows 8, but there is emerging evidence that there is a problem with LoopBE and MuseScore 2.

And yes, the reason Foo YC20 is running successfully is its native JACK support.

JACK obviously isn't the problem as it works with your MuseScore 1.3 setup.

I will try your suggestion with LoopBE and report back.

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 09:08

More tests
Windows 7 32bit
JACK 1.9.10 32bits
MuseScore nightly f3f334f958

  1. Install MuseScore and jack
  2. Run Jack control. Change driver to portaudio and add -X winmme in server prefix
  3. Start MuseScore
  4. Start MuseScore and go to preferences -> I/O. Change to Jack, uncheck remember connection. OK
  5. Start playback in MuseScore. It plays perfectly.
  6. Check the connections in jack control. In Audio, disconnect MuseScore from system out. In Midi, make sure MuseScore is connected to system out
  7. Restart MuseScore, it plays again.

More...

  1. Install Foo YC20. This software is one of the few with native jack midi support on Windows. MuseScore is also one of them. It means a virtual cable (Loopbe etc...) is not necessary to use it.
  2. Run MuseScore, and in Jack control, in Audio, connect Foo YC20 to system out. In MIDI, connect MuseScore to FooYC20
  3. Play in MuseScore and I hear the organ

No MIDI virtual cable involved and it works. It's not a 64bit machine so I installed only 32bit software. MuseScore being 32bit, it's worth to try using only 32bit software for the whole chain. So Jack 32 bit instead of Jack 64bit. MuseScore 1.3 was compiled and packaged with a different version of Jack client library than MuseScore 2.0. It could be that the version of the lib in 2.0 is more sensible to the 32/64bit difference.

@Leonardus Which version of Jack are you running exactly? 32 or 64bit?

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 12:41

So I tried it with the Jack 32 bit driver running on the Windows 7-64 bits Pro platform. JackPortaudio is still displaying errors. Attached JPG screenshot Nr.1shows the situation upon opening MS 2.0 without any score. Screenshot 2 shows what happens upon opening a score. Nr.3 shows it upon starting a new score.

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MS2.0+Jackaudio(3)_html_13438ded.jpg 255.86 KB

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 14:02

I can see from your screen shots that you have other MIDI devices installed.

If you are simply running JACK with the system driver there should be only one MIDI client - playback_1

In order for this test to work you must either uninstall all other MIDI devices, or disable the drivers in the Device manager.

You should be seeing this:-
Windows7Jack.png

Not the setup showing JACK connect on your system.

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 18:10

Leonardus - as a prior backing track programmer I probably know more about MIDI than lasconic - it was my bread and butter for 10 years!

You are not going to get accurate results with third party MIDI drivers involved in the process.

This is why I instructed you to uninstall your third party drivers.

The setup lasconic describes works on Windows 7 Ultimate just with the system_midi driver - playback_1. That has already been established.

This points to a 3rd party midi driver installed on your system which is causing your problem.

Unless you disable or uninstall all midi drivers apart from the Microsoft system driver then we cannot even start to pinpoint the problem.

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 19:28

Hello Churchorganist,
If it were to work only with Midi Playback 1 then the whole thing is of no interest at all because then you only have the Microsoft GM piano as a sound.
On my system Playback 2 and 3 correspond to my hardware Midi interface connected to my electronic piano. Playback 4 corresponds to LoopBe or LoopMidi connected to my VST softstudio.
This all works fine with Musescore 1.3. So I continue to think that Musescore 2.0 should work with any amount of Playback on the system. On my previous computer running Windows XP 32 bit with MS 1.3 I had up to 10 Playback on the Jackctr screen and it worked !
I will now reply to Igevorse and Iasconic and report that I had no sound at all with all my previous tests.

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 19:39

Hello Igevorse
I confirm that I had no sound at all with all my previous tests. The errors displayed by Jackportaudio apparenly block all Midi information eventually sent by Musescore 2.0.
It remains strange that things work fine for Musescore 2.0 on the Windows XP-32 bit platform as well as on the Windows 8-64 bit platform and not Under Windows 7-32 or 64 bit (except apparently if you only have Playback 1 on your system which only gives the Microsoft GM piano sound)

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• Sep 28, 2014 - 19:47

Hello Iasconic,
As with Igevorse I confirm that I had no sound at all with all my previous tests with Musescore 2.0 running Windows 7-64 bit. According to the instructions given by the Jack developpers : To have Jackaudio work properly first Jackportaudio has to be opend, then jackctrl and then only a software like Musescore. This is how I am doing it with Musescore 1.3 and it works fine.

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• Sep 29, 2014 - 07:36

Would you mind trying to run Jack from Jack Control only? I know it's working with 1.3 but let's try to forget that and make it work with 2.0.

So

  1. Stop everything. Check your processus list (Ctrl + shift + esc) and make sure jack is not running
  2. Start Jack Control
  3. Go to settings, make sure that portaudio is selected as a driver, make sure that -X winmme is appended to jackd
  4. Start Jack from Jack Control
  5. Start MuseScore, go to edit->preferences->I/O. Make sure that Jack Audio server is selected and Use Jack Audio, Use Jack MIDI are also checked.
  6. In Jack Control, make sure that in the audio tab there is no connection and that in the MIDI tab, mscore is connected to the Windows synth (for a start)

Does it work?

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• Sep 29, 2014 - 14:40

Ok, I did exactly as you indicated. Jack is running all by itself without running Jackportaudio.
I tried to run Musescore 2.0 but it did not appear in the Jack connection window. Tried the same with Musescore 1.3 and it appeared correctly in the connection window.

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• Sep 29, 2014 - 19:09

I will be more than happy to try out the tutorial once someone writes it :-)

I suppose it should cover how to use jack in order to play a software-based synth, but also how to use it to route MIDI out via a physical connection (eg, USB), including information on whatever else one might need to install to make that happen.

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• Sep 29, 2014 - 23:47

I'm thinking in terms of doing a little series on connecting MuseScore to other software via JACK,
but I have quite a bit of research still to do - I'm currently working out how to connect Sonar X2 to JACK via a 3rd party ASIO bridge.

I have successfully got a VST instrument playing from Sonar via VB HIFI Cable AsioBridge and Catia tonight - after finding the solution to the problem of JACK grabbing the entire soundcard online this evening.

The next stage is to bring MuseScore 2 beta into the equation via Catia's MIDI patchbay section.

Strangely LoopBE is working now that we're starting JACK from QJackCtrl, although I have noticed that it is a little prone to MIDI feedback - LoopMIDI does seem to be the better option IMO - perhaps because I'm not keen on things which work "automatically", and prefer to have direct control over what connects to what. Must be ingrained after working with physical interfaces and cables for so long :)

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• Oct 5, 2014 - 22:06

Hi Iasconic,
I am awfully sorry to say that finally it does'n work.
Using your settings : “Use Jack audio, use Jack Midi and nothing else”, what I heard in reality was the sound of Musescore's internal syntheziser and not the sound of my softsampler via Midi. This confused me and made me think things were OK. So I tried it again unchecking “Use Jack audio” and using only “Use Jack midi”. Then I discovered that the Midi output did not function properly as I already stated in the very beginning of our discussion. I tried it with different virtual Midi cables and also with different softsamplers as well as with my electronic piano. There is Midi output but it is chaotic and unpredictable. One of the virtual Midi cables I used (LoopBE) even switched on “Mute” ,stopped transmitting Midi info and displayed “Midi shortcut”. I think this is due to the errors that appeared in the Jackd control window for which I already transmitted screenshots. The fact to start directly with “Jackctl” without opening “Jackd” only prevents to see the eventual errors this Jackd window is displaying. Opening the “Jackd” window launches “Jackctl” and that's all.
So as a conclusion of my Beta testing about Musescore's Jack Midi function I must say that for the time being it does not work. Up to now it only works when you connect software having native Jackaudio. I leave it up to you or others to do these same tests running Windows 7-64 bit to have confirmation of above.

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• Oct 5, 2014 - 23:46

The reason LoopBE switched on Mute was because of a MIDI overflow issue which I have also noticed sometimes happens with LoopBE, upon one occasion when Jack wasn't even running.

I have had many fewer problems since I stopped launching Jack Portaudio and using JackCtrl instead.

It is still quite tricky to setup, but I have been able to output MuseScore's MIDI output to Sonar X2 and then playback and also record the MIDI stream using Sonar's VST instruments via the JackRouter ASIO connections.

Any errors on the part of Jack are displayed in the JackCtrl messages window - and I can assure you it does report crashes.

My own experiments with the Windows version of LinuxSampler were unsuccessful, I think largely because I was trying to run it standalone.

I think it would be helpful in trying to solve this issue if you could let us have full details of the MIDI chain from MuseScore to LinuxSampler, and also details of the audio output from LinuxSampler.

Do you have the JackRouter ASIO drivers running? I understand that in order to do this you have to register the JackRouter.dll manually in the registry.

Suffice it to say that these ASIO connections were not apparent until I did this.

Keep talking to us Leonardus - we will get you going eventually.

I have some spare time tomorrow - I will spend some of it trying to get LinuxSampler working with MuseScore on my system - it's quite possible the configuration may need to be a little different from your 1.3 setup.

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• Oct 6, 2014 - 12:39

To disconnect Musescore from the audio output in Jack Control I suppose you mean the setting window as shown in the attached screenshot. But is this relevant as I also made the test with my electronic piano which has its own audio output without using Jack's audio output. And even with my piano connected via Midi I had these chaotic audio outputs. I still think it is due to the defect Midi Stream coming out of the Jack Midi interface as shown in the Jackportaudio window.

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• Oct 6, 2014 - 13:23

I repeat.

Have you registered the JackRouter.dll?

The Jackrouter dll is vital for successful routing of the sound.

If you're not sure press Winkey+R then type regedit into the box.

When Regedit launches, make sure you are right at the top of the tree then invoke the Find dialogue from the Edit menu and type JackRouter.dll into the box and press enter.

You should get a match somewhere in Computer\HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID if the dll is registered.

As I write this I am listening to MuseScore 2.0 beta playing back a scale on the Salamander Piano in LinuxSampler via the LoopBE MIDI connection and the JackRouter ASIO sound output.

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• Oct 6, 2014 - 15:23

OK all clear, but that's what I already did.
What we now need is someone having Windows 7-64 bit and who could make these same tests as I did firstly with a keyboard for instance and then eventually with Midi software such as sample Players or soft samplers via a virtual Midi cable. To make things clear concerning the Jack driver : as from driver 1.9.9 all dll's are automatically installed. This was not the case until driver 1.9.8.
So the problem is not with the driver either. I will now leave it up to the Musescore developpers to finish these beta tests about Jack. Brgds.

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• Oct 6, 2014 - 16:12

Hello Churchorganist,
I am using The Linux sampler as a VST within a VST host. No need for a front end.
Here is my little soft studio (all freeware):
1. Live Professor (Vst host)
2. Linux Sampler Fantasia (sampler as VST)
3. Sir 1011 (convolution reverb as VST)
4. Tape It (wave recorder as VST)
5. Maxim 16-2 EQ(mixer as VST)
Free convolution reverbs for Sir 1011 at : http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/

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• Oct 6, 2014 - 17:14

Good news Leonardus :)

I now have LinuxSampler installed as VST plugin in Live Professor in my Windows 8.1 Desktop

After a couple of hiccups I was able to route MIDI from Musescore 2 beta via JackCtrl and LoopBE to Live Professor and play the scale I was talking about earlier on the Slamander Grand Piano in LinuxSampler.

I will do some documentation this later, but I have a rehearsal tonight so it will have to wait until I get back from that.

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• Sep 29, 2014 - 19:27

Bingo, the list of steps from igevorse worked like a charm. I heard the organ play as expected.

BTW, I did also see system_midi in the Jack Connect window this time whereas I didn't before. Is that because of the "-X winmme" you had me add? And is this what I would need to have working in order to output MIDI via my USB port (in order to connect an external keyboard - or my iPad running GarageBand)?

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• Sep 30, 2014 - 04:54

Yes, "-X winmme" says to JACK to use Windows MME MIDI API. Now you should see a list of all connected plug-n-play devices in the "Connect" window. When you connect your keyboard, you'll see it in the list of ports ("Refresh" button might help). To output midi events to a keyboard just connect musescore midi output to it (not to system_midi).
Can't say anything about connecting iPad with GarageBand. You can try :).

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• Sep 30, 2014 - 09:31

There is one more step which you need to do on a 64 bit machine in order to get full JACK capability in Windows and that is to register the Jackrouter dll which apparently has to be done manually.

This is done by opening a Command Prompt as an administrator and typing the following in it.

cd c:\Program Files (x86)\Jack\64bits
regsvr32 JackRouter.dll

Then that is done.

This is supposed to give full ASIO routing capability to JACK, but I currently can't see how to get that to come up in the QJackCtrl window, although if you run VBCable Asiobridge you will see Jackrouter appear in the Asio Device list, and if you run a non-native JACK application like Sonar you can see Jackrouter connections in the I/O setup i you switch to ASIO mode.

You can cate VB cable Asiobrisdge here: http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/

More on this as I learn!

Sadly JACK documentation for Windows appears to be virtually non-existent, and the Windows section of the forum has one unanswered question in it.

Speaking of which - does anyone know what the command line switch -S is for? It isn't in the switch list at http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/man/man1/jackd.1.html and there doesn't seem to be another one listed anywhere.

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• Sep 30, 2014 - 21:03

Good news guys :)

I have finally got Sonar talking to Jack via the JackRouter ASIO interface.

Earlier today I was playing a drumtrack in MuseScore and routing the MIDI via LoopBE to Sonar which was then playing the sound back through JACK Audio.

I just hope I can remember what the connections were tomorrow :)

Needless to say I shall be writing down the various connections involved.

As you no doubt realise, this is a major step forward for MuseScore, as the ability to integrate with a mainstream MIDI/Audio sequencer is now possible.

Does anyone know whether you can still download a demo version of Cubase?

It would be good to apply this to the other mainstream Windows sequencer.

Ultimately I'm thinking in terms of issuing a series of video tutorials on this, but I want to become far more proficient at it before I do so.

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• Sep 30, 2014 - 21:41

As far as I know, that was already possible. I mean routing MIDI from MuseScore to a sequencer or a VST host on Windows. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgHamEhVbCM

JackRouter ASIO interface is used to make applications that are not natively Jack enabled, talk with Jack. So in this case make Sonar talk to Jack in order to hear the sound. If the audio out of Sonar doesn't need to be processed further, Sonar can just use ASIO to output the sound to the system.

Anyone knows if it's really worth using Jack 64bit instead of Jack 32bit, even on a 64bit Windows OS?

On Linux, there are Jack session managers but I couldn't find one for Windows. MuseScore "Remember connections" should work though to save the connections from MuseScore to Jack.

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• Sep 30, 2014 - 22:05

It's not the MuseScore connections that are the problem.

It was working out how to persuade Sonar to use the JackRouter rather than ASIO4ALL that was the key breakthrough.

FWIW I'm using JACK 64bit - that's what was automatically installed by the 1.9.9.5 msi.

There is also an driver called WASAPI which can be used if you can't get ASIO to work.

IME it has higher latency than ASIO - I had Sonar connected to VB CABLE ASIO Bridge via Catia last night and thence to JACK using the WASAPI driver - it worked, but I had to tweak latency settings to prevent stuttering sound, whereas using hte JackRouter ASIO device worked straight out of the box today.

Your video was useful in that shows connection to a VST host.

Working out how to connect to DAW software, however, means that it is possible to add processors and effects to the sound - eg the sonitus multiband compressor which is the best mastering tool I have come across so far.

We definitely need to get all this documented so that other MuseScore users can benefit.

A lot of the problem is that most users have never heard of the software needed to do this.

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• Oct 1, 2014 - 07:20

Sonar to use the JackRouter rather than ASIO4ALL
I don't get that. Why do you need to persuade Sonar to use Jack Router if it's just to hear the sound out of sonar?
The connection MuseScore -> Jack MIDI -> LoopbeX (or other virtual midi cable) -> Sonar doesn't require Sonar to know anything about Jack right?

Working out how to connect to DAW software, however, means that it is possible to add processors and effects to the sound
Again, I don't get that... While the MIDI signal is in Sonar. You first need to synthesize it and indeed you can apply effects but again, how is Jack involved in the process once it's used to route the MIDI out of MuseScore?
Or are you talking about a completely different other route like sending the audio signal of MuseScore to Sonar then? Which was also possible before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YB-c5sQb6U After all, it was the whole point of having and improving Jack support in MuseScore... being able to route Audio and MIDI out to a DAW. Several users are doing it on linux since MuseScore 1.2.

And then again, why use VB CABLE ASIO Bridge at all... It's a Virtual Audio Cable, exactly what Jack Audio is supposed to be. So by doing Sonar -> Asio Bridge -> Jack ->System audio it seems logical that the latency is higher, we are stacking two "virtual cable system" on top of each other. Also as I said earlier, I don't understand why we should insist in having Sonar output going through Jack and no directly through Asio? You want add effects that can't run in Sonar itself? Sonitus:fx is a VST so it can run in Sonar no?

Or I'm missing something which is perfectly possible, or you are making things more complicated than they should.

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• Oct 1, 2014 - 08:54

The reason why the sound from Sonar has to be routed through Jack is because Jack grabs the soundcard when it starts (on my system anyway) so Sonar can't use it.

So the sound from Sonar has to be routed back to Jack so you can hear it.

The VB CABLE ASIO BRIDGE is not necessary now I have figured out how to configure Sonar to use the JackRouter connections - which was not immediately obvious as they were greyed out initially, which is a peculiarity of Sonar.

Hope you understand now.

This is all because I am running with the motherboard Realtek HD Audio soundcard which is currently configured to only have 2 audio outputs (L & R) as I only have one set of speakers. A situation most laptop owners are probably in.

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• Oct 1, 2014 - 16:04

Yes if Jack uses the ASIO4ALL sound driver it will lock the soundcard - see this excerpt from the ASIO4ALL FAQ.....

Q: Why do I get an error 'Could not start ASIO' or some such? (READ THIS ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH LOGIC!)

A: (Version 1.x) ASIO4ALL requires exclusive access to the audio device. More often than not, starting the driver fails because the audio device is already in use. There are obvious instances, like some other audio application still open, but there are also things to consider that are not so obvious. Such as the "Microsoft GS Software Wavetable Synth", which is enabled as a default MIDI output in some sequencer software. Check the MIDI settings of your host application! For a further explanation on this issue, I recommend this link. Besides, this may also be related to the 44.1 vs. 48kHz issue as explained above. Try to set up a project with 48kHz and see whether this makes a difference. As a last resort, check the "Force 16 Bit Samples" option in the control panel. If it still doesn't work, report!
(Version 2.x) This error should not happen as often anymore. Instead, you simply get no audio, and, if you open the ASIO4ALL control panel, you will find that your audio outputs are flagged with an error symbol. The most likely reason and remedy for this hasn't changed, however.

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 11:35

Starting a fresh sub-thread on this as it was getting a little convoluted.

These are the steps to play MuseScore 2 beta scores via Jack and the LiveProfessor VST Host running LinuxSampler as a VST plugin. I have got this working on my Windows 8.1 pro Desktop machine.

1. Run Jack Control
2. Open the settings menu and ensure they match those in the screenshot.
JackSetup.png
3. Start Jack from Jack Control - I have found that starting it from Jack Portaudio is a bad idea as it nerfs some important settings to do with sample rate and latency.
4. If LoopBE protests about a MIDI Overflow at this point, don't worry, just open it's monitor from the System Tray and uncheck the mute box.
5. Start LiveProfessor
6. Open the audio options dialogue and set them as in the screenshot.
LiveProfessor.png
7. If you now open the JackControl Connections dialogue you should see LiveProfessor as a connection in the Audio tab.
JackConnect1.png
8. Add the LinuxSampler to LiveProfessor from the Add Unit dialogue (I'm assuming you already have it set up as a VST), then hide the Fantasia frontend.
9. Open the options dialogue for LinuxSampler (you may have to drag it down to get the full view), then open the MIDI tab.
10. Select LoopBE as the MIDI input (see screenshot).
LivePro2.png
11. Unhide the Fantasia frontend and choose a suitable instrument.
12. Now launch Musescore 2 beta - again, if LoopBE goes into overflow just unmute it from the monitor dialogue.
13. Open the MuseScore preferences dialogue and check that the I/O tab is set as in the screenshot.
Musescore2Settings.png
14. Open the Jack Connection dialogue again, and disconnect MuseScore from system audio (see screenshot).
JackConnect2.png
15. Switch to the Jack Connection MIDI tab and make sure MuseScore is connected to playback_2 (see screenshot).
JackConnect3.png
16. Enter a few notes into MuseScore. They should play back on LiveProfessor.

That should be it. This presumes you already have Jack, LoopBE, LiveProfessor and LinuxSampler installed in Windows, that you have set up LinuxSampler as a VST plugin in LiveProfessor, and that you have an instrument set up in the Fantasia frontend for Linux Sampler.

If you need instructions on how to do any of that either email or message me.

As already mentioned this works on my Windows 8.1 pro desktop.

Please will someone test on Windows 7 64bit.

I am preparing a video tutorial on this for future reference.

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 12:31

I am happy I made you discover Live Professor as a VST host and the way to use it with Musescore and the Linux Sampler as a VST plug. It's a good idea to share this with others. Now there is still one thing to test: when you change the instrument in the Linux Sampler, do you really hear this new instrument or do you still hear the same. Because I think that when you use Jackaudio in the preference window, Musescore is still playing via the internal synthesizer and not via the Linux Sampler. Please let me know for clarification.

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 13:53

Yes I really hear the LinuxSampler instrument. In this case the Salamander Piano, which is quite different in tone to the Fluid R3 one.

The key here is to disconnect the audio from Musescore (see step 14).

It is easy to check - just ensure you are using a different sounding instrument in MuseScore and LinuxSampler.

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 15:11

Hello Churchorganist,
I think it’s not enough to simply unmute LoopBE as upon restarting of Musescore Loopbe mutes again because there is a MIDI feedback. So then it is logically impossible to hear the Linux Sampler instrument because the Midi connection between Musescore and the Linux Sampler is muted. The best way indeed to verify this is to change the instrument in Musescore’s synthesizer for instance in a flute, restart Musescore and see if you hear a flute or a piano. The very fact that LoopBE mutes indicates there is a problem.

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 16:16

Hmm - that is not so on my system.

The only time LoopBE has indicated an overflow is either on Jack starting or MuseScore starting.

You mention restarting MuseScore and causing another overflow in LoopBE>

Are you closing MuseScore before you unmute LoopBE?

That is not necessary. Just give a few seconds for things to settle down and then unmute LoopBE.

All should be well then.

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 16:39

No, I mean after having unmuted LoopBE, simply restarting to play the score and not restarting Musescore as a whole.
Did you try already to change the instrument in Musescore's synthesizer in a flute(this is done via Musescore's mixer) and then to see if you hear a flute (which would come from Musescore's synthesizer) or a piano (which would come from the Linux Sampler).

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 16:44

Hmm - I have had a few audio dropouts when starting playback but not a MIDI overflow.

I'm sure now that MIDI overflow is your problem, but we now need to determine what is overflowing and why starting playback in MuseScore should cause it.

Are there any other MIDI connections made in the Jack Connection dialogue besides MuseScore to playback_2?

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• Oct 7, 2014 - 23:06

You say you have no problems with Loopbe muting when you start playback. This is absolutely amazing because when Loopbe is muted it means there is no more Midi transmission between Musescore and Linux Sampler. So Linux Sampler receives no more Midi data from Musescore.
How can Linux Sampler then play all by itself. I am really puzzled about this.
For the sake of Musescore could you still do one test, that is :

Leave all the Musescore 2,0 and Live Professor settings as you indicated before.
Create one single flute staff in Musescore from scratch. I insist there must be only one staff.
Create about 10 measures with a repeat bar in the end. This because we need at least half a minute of music.
Fill the staff with notes untill the end.
Open the mixer and verify you have the flute as instrument.
Put a piano instrument in the Linux Sampler.
Verify Loopbe is not muted.
Start playback and listen untill the very of the tune and tell us all what you heard.
Which instrument and was the music corresponding to the notes of the flute staff in Musescore.

Sorry, it looks a bit schoolish but I really dont't see how Linux Sampler can play without receiving Midi data.

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• Oct 8, 2014 - 18:22

Ok here you are Leonardus, the screen recording of Musescore 2.0 beta 1 playing the Salamander Piano on Linux Sampler in LiveProfessor.

http://youtu.be/jDTKs2QbY1g

Hope this helps you get your system configured right - I'm sure it's just a configuration thing.

One thing to check is that you have no MIDI Thru's enabled anywhere on the system. If there are then MuseScore will flood the system with MIDI data because LoopBE makes automatic connections.

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• Oct 8, 2014 - 22:40

Thanks a lot Churchorganist for this splendid demo via youtube. Well done really. The tuplet demo also was quite interesting.
Although you did not mention the status of LoopBE at the end of the piano playing, I presume that it muted. Maybe could you confirm. If so, and I have the strong idea it muted indeed, it means that the Linux Sampler got the Midi stream from elsewhere and NOT from LoopBE.This made me have a look at the Linux Sampler site where I discovered that Linux Sampler HAS Jackaudio implemented.
So in your demonstration Jackaudio (Musescore 2.0) was talking to Jackaudio (Linux Sampler) and that worked fine as we already had discovered with Igevorse a week ago.(remember with the Foo organ he used for testing). But unfortunately this does not solve our Midi- Out problem with Musescore 2.0. I tested the Midi -out function with a piano keyboard and it did not work and the fact that Loopbe mutes al the time also shows this Midi-out function is not working with Musescore 2.0. What you could do now, and I tested this too, is to conect Musescore to a sample reader which has Not native Jackaudio but has native Midi.Here is the name of the one I have : “Synthfont”.
A very nice soft written by Kenneth Rundt, quite well known in the Midi world. Last year I tested this soft for him which permitted him to improve it quite nicely. This software used to be freeware but it might not be so anymore (maybe now it is a month trial). If you're still interested in testing Musescore 2.0 on this Midi-out feature and also discover new Midi softs, then try Synthfont and let me know. For the time being I maintain that the Midi-out feature is NOT working with Musescore 2.0.
P.S. I had no Midi thru's enabled.

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• Oct 8, 2014 - 23:14

At no point in that demo did LoopBE mute, although it did do on a couple of occasions during the dry run when I was editing with the MIDI link to LiveProfessor connected.

If LoopBE had muted you would have seen the balloon come up from the system tray and playback would have halted in Linux Sampler.

In the demo I connected the MIDI input to Linux Sampler to LoopBE - there was no way it could get MIDI input from somewhere else as there was no connection.

There is definitely something on your system causing LoopBE to overflow and thus mute when MuseScore starts playback.

I already know about SynthFont :) I am a registered user and used it in May at a live concert to play the FluidR3 soundfont on a netbook controlled by a Samson USB keyboard.

I have just done a demo of MuseScore providing the MIDI stream to Cakewalk Sonar X2 Studio to drive it's native VST string synth.

I have noticed that LoopBE is more prone to overflow than LoopMIDI - while I was doing the Cakewalk demo I eventually disabled the LoopBE driver and used LoopMIDI because of the dropouts and stuck notes I was getting - you may have noticed towards the end of the demo that there was a stuck note on Salamander - if that had not been a piano sample it would have been sounding all the way through to the end :)

I will see if I can force a MIDI overflow in LoopBE while I'm recording so you can see what happens.

Incidentally - yes, LinuxSampler will interface with Jack directly - no need for Live Professor - but then you lose out on the effects chain.

I hope we're a little nearer :)

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• Oct 9, 2014 - 13:46

How strange is this all. I tested on 2 different computers running Windows 7-64 bit. These tests were done as well with Loopbe as with LoopMidi. Looking at your configuration though, I was thinking in the end that Jackaudio maybe functions as a virtual Midi cable like Loopbe. In that case Musescore and the Linux Sampler could communicate even without Loopbe or LoopMidi as they both have native Jackaudio. That's worth a try maybe.
Remains also the question of having MS2.0 play via a hardware Midi interface connecting a piano keyboard or synthesizer. So to hear an MS 2.0 score playing through your hardware Midi device.(that is the 2nd or 3rd Midi port in the Jackctl connection window). For me this didn't work either . I will still go on testing on my side. Would you have the possibility to test with a hardware keyboard ?

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• Oct 15, 2014 - 15:10

One further comment.

During my testing I have established that LoopBE can get a MIDI overflow every time MuseScore 2 beta starts playback.

This was during my testing of VST instruments with JACK.

The software synth in question was the standalone version of Spicy Guitar which you can download here: http://www.spicyguitar.com/

I made the usual connections mentioned further up the page, loaded a guitar piece into MuseScore 2 beta and pressed play. LoopBE overflowed.

So I unmuted LoopBE and tried again - LoopBE overflowed.

To cut a long story short I tried to playback from MuseScore 2 beta about a dozen times and each time LoopBE overflowed.

In the end I uninstalled LoopBE and switched to the LoopMIDI virtual MIDI cable which solved the problem.

So there is something going on between MuseScore 2 beta's MIDI output which is causing an overflow in LoopBE under certain circumstances, one of which is using the standalone version of Spicy Guitar, another being somewhere on Leonardus' setup which we haven't yet identified.

Maybe a step forward would be to contact the LoopBE developers? I will do that if you think it might help.

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• Oct 16, 2014 - 14:19

Hello Churchorganist
I still think it is due to Musescore 2.0 beta 1. Before going to the LoopBE developers, it might be useful to first test MS 2.0 with a hardware keyboard as I suggested. This is done without a virtual Midi cable directly on the Midi port created by the hardware Midi interface which connects the keyboard to the computer. This Midi port appears then in position 2 or 3 in the Jackctrl window.

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• Oct 16, 2014 - 14:40

MuseScore 2 beta is certainly triggering the overflow.

What is not obvious is why it is happening in some circumstances and not others.

If it was completely down to MuseScore 2 beta then the problem would be happening consistently across all Windows OSes and with all connected MIDI applications, which is not the case.

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• Oct 16, 2014 - 19:28

FWIW, I have a couple of different MIDI devices I could potentially test this with, but don't have the type of cable that would be required. I have a device that accepts regular old-fashioned MIDI in but no USB-MIDI converted cable, and I have a device that accepts USB input but it wants the "standard" size USB plug - the same size that normally goes into your computer - where all my dozens of USB cables have mismatched ends (standard one side, square, mini, or micro on the other).

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• Oct 17, 2014 - 14:07

What you would need is an interface as shown in the attached file.
USB goes into the computer, Midi-in and out go into your Midi device. (Interface Midi-in to Midi device Midi-out, Interface Midi-out to device Midi-in).
Install the interface's driver which automatically generates a Midi port.
This Midi port you will find it back in the Jactrl window where you can connect Musescore to this Midi port.
Then play a score.

Attachment Size
InterfaceMidi.png 39.39 KB

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• Apr 19, 2017 - 12:06

Where did you get your jack audio connections kit, on the website the windows download link brings me to an error 404 drop box page...

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• May 12, 2018 - 01:38

I have windows 7/64bit I'm trying to get jack router to work and all the atchment loads up in a word pad I can not find one that works. where am I not looking

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• May 12, 2018 - 18:40

What are you trying to use JACK for? Are you aware that MuseScore now supports MIDI out directly, so you may not need JACK any more?

Anyhow, if you do find you need JACK for some reason and are having trouble installing JACK, probably better to ask on their forums, as you'll find more expertise there. But my guess is it might have to do with Windows 7 being long-unsupported by now.

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• May 14, 2018 - 21:54

I'm making my own backing tracks and I notice that some of the other people have different sounds such as the fuzz tone. Tan I read about your statement so do I need to download Vst instruments and how do I get that to work in my musescore 2.2 I have windows 7/64bit. Oh yeah thank you much for responding. I use mostly guitar and drum tracks. I'm a retired musician

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