Newbie Ouestion: How to set an aItered "standard note duration" for a particular part of composition?
Dear anybody willing to read,
l am trying to find out how to set an "altered standard note duration" for a specific part of composition (i. e. a certain number of bars). What l have in mind? In handwritten or printed sheets, there sometimes are small notes above a stave signifying altered note duration. For instance, there is a semibreve equalled to dotted (augmented) semibreve, which means the standard duration is actually "longer" than it should be according to the notation (mathematically it could be written as 1=1,5 or x=1,5.x). Moreover, sometimes, and that is the case l am currently facing, these "small notes situated above a stave" repeat in different variations, as the standard duration is altered several times throughout the composition.
My question, therefore, is whether it is possible to change "standard note duration" in this way in Musescore, or it is at least possible to work it out somehow. l have consulted both the manual and the forum, l have also tried to find out myself, but without any result.
Of course I know it is possible to alter actual duration of a bar, but this does not seem to be what I would need. This is suitable for cases when a single "shorter" note is reconciled with a certain predefined time in a certain bar. However, I am seeking for the alteration of every note in all chosen bars (meaning that all semibreves become "longer" and other notes accommodate accordingly) and also for signifying this alteration by a specific set of symbols above the stave (meaning there will be a x = x' or x'=x formula, where x represents a note and x' represents its augmented version). If l have omitted anything, please accept my apology.
As this is my first post ever in this forum, l would also like to express the greatest kudos to all the development team.
Yours sincerely
JR
Comments
Could you post an example of what you mean? I have never seen anything quite like what you describe, and suspect you might be misinterpreting something that is actually different. Normally, when one sees " = " in a score, it doesn't mean that quarter note is anything but a quarter note; it is just signifying a tempo change. That is, a length of time that before this measure would have been written as a quarter note will now be written as a dotted quarter*. So a quarter note is actually shorter than it was before. But there are still exactly four of them to a measure in 4/4 time. Most often, this notation accompanies time signature changes, to help you understand how the tempo relates between the two sections. In any case, it's purely a tempo marking on and has no actual effect on notation except to help the performer understand the tempo change. And you can create markings like this as staff or system text, using the keyboard icon at lower left (shortcut: F2) to generate the symbols for the notes.
*Or, the exact opposite - I've seen it both ways. I have no idea which is supposed to be "correct".
In reply to Could you post an example of by Marc Sabatella
Dear Marc,
Thank you very much for such a prompt reply. I really appreciate your kindness. Here is my "point to point" reaction:
MS: "Could you post an example of what you mean?"
JR: I am attaching png files to give you a clue. I have also not mentioned my system and programme configuration: it is Musescore 1.0, rev. 3996, on Win XP HE, ver. 2002, SP 3. Please, accept my apology for not having done it before.
MS: "I have never seen anything quite like what you describe, and suspect you might be misinterpreting something that is actually different."
JR: It is of course possible that I do misrepresent. As I have not been able to find anything on the net (perhaps because I do not know how this "case" is actually called in music terminology), I have decided to ask my teacher (he was 30 years in opera, so I suppose he is quite a reliable source). I have my class on Thursday, so I can let you know then, if you were interested.
MS: "Normally, when one sees " = " in a score, it doesn't mean that quarter note is anything but a quarter note; it is just signifying a tempo change. That is, a length of time that before this measure would have been written as a quarter note will now be written as a dotted quarter*. So a quarter note is actually shorter than it was before. But there are still exactly four of them to a measure in 4/4 time. Most often, this notation accompanies time signature changes, to help you understand how the tempo relates between the two sections."
JR: Of course that we are both talking about "virtual duration", not the nominal one "in the sheet". Thus, naturally, a quarter note is a "quarter note" as far as its sign in a stave is concerned. However, its actual duration can be different, and that is the core of the problem.
As I mentioned I deal with semibreves. Let us examine the case here again: semibreve is prescribed as equalled to dotted semibreve. As far as I have understood your point of view, it could mean it is either virtually "shorter" or "longer". If it is "shorter", I have to write dotted semibreve to get normal semibreve (i.e. I get 4 crotchets instead of 6 for each dotted semibreve). Nevertheless, such interpretation becomes problematic as soon as we use normal semibreve in the same notation, because it is very difficult to divide even number of crotchets with an odd number, in this case 3 (to get two thirds of the nominal number, in this case 4). Therefore, I tend to think the given formula or prescription actually means that nominal semibreve is virtually "longer" (i.e. 6 crotchets instead of 4 for each normal semibreve). Nevertheless, not even this interpretation seems to be satisfactory enough, as in the piece you can find in the attachment, it is, at least for me, quite difficult to guess what the relation between the formula and the notation is. There are dotted semibreves that seem to be neither "shorter", nor "longer", just the ordinary 6 crotchets, and I can not find out how to count them according to the formula.
It has crossed my mind (in reaction to your reply) it could be that I should count it as the 2/2 time instead of the 3/2 one. However, if I change the actual duration, notes become missing, which is of course undesirable. If you understand it better than me, I would be grateful for your advice. I would also appreciate very much to be explained how exactly would you reflect this kind of notation by altering the actual bar duration. Please note that in this particular case it has to be done several times troughout the composition (I understand it however as being only the original formula "switch on/switch off" in fact). Besides that I have one more question: is there a way how to alter actual duration in several bars at once? So far, when trying to highlight several bars and alter their properties, I always end in measure properties of the first bar of the selection only.
MS: "And you can create markings like this as staff or system text, using the keyboard icon at lower left (shortcut: F2) to generate the symbols for the notes."
JR: I know you can use a system or stave text. I have done it actually as you can see in the png files. However, to me it is just a work-around as you have to use a combination of three separate symbols (two semibreves and a dot) and a system or stave text (just for "=" sign). It is very labourious, especially when you need to change the position of the formula (Not mentioning that you even can not copy the result. I have tried to mark all the symbols and "=" sign and copy it with the right mouse button, but to no avail). Moreover, this work-around does not influence the playback.
Regards
JR
In reply to Ad Altered Duration Formula - Example and Comments by jano.riha
Your first example doesn't really make sense to me. There is no possible meaning for the notation you're describing at the *beginning* of a piece. As I explained, the only meaning I am aware of for this marking is to describe a tempo *change*. there can be no tempo change at the beginning of a piece, because there is nothing for it to have changed from!
The notation you show in your other examples, though, are just tempo changes, as I described. The one in example #2 is just saying "adjust the tempo so that the old dotted semibreve is as long as the new semibreve". If my math is correct, that means the new tempo in beats per minute should be 66% of what it was before. If you create a marking as "tempo text" instead of ordinary staff text you can get that playback effect by right clicking it and setting tempo properties. Unfortunately, no way to do so using a percentage; you have to enter actual numbers. So it might seem you are locked in to whatever tempo you initially decide to use. But luckily, you *can* adjust the playback tempo in the play panel.
However, the text symbol palette (F2) is not available when entering tempo text. So you'd probably want to enter it as staff text then create a second invisible tempo marking to actually affect playback. And I don't see the semibreve on the text symbol palette in version 1.0. In the case of semibreves, you need to create that marking out of separate elements. Definitely room for improvement, I agree - although I see the trunk does have an improved text symbol palette that allows you to create that whole expression as staff text. Still, I'd probably make those markings graphics if you need to use them a lot, and use the hidden tempo marking to get playback right. Eventually, I'd love to see a customizable palette of text expressions so you could create something like this, guve it playback meaning, then keep reusing it easily.
But aside from the inconvenience of the entry, there is really is nothing missing here as far as I can tell. The 3/2 measures have 3 beats per measure, each beat being a minim in length. The 2/2 measures have four beats per measure, each beat also being a minim in length. Note that the time signature is displayed as C, but in this context should probably be interpreted as 2/2. You might need to double the tempo in bpm to actually get that effect in playback, or perhaps use the measure properties to get the nominal and actual time signatures the way you want them.
In reply to Your first example doesn't by Marc Sabatella
Dear Marc,
First many thanks for your endeavour. You have helped me to be enlightened. You have been correct in this: the formula does not change the nominal number of crotchets in semibreve. However, it changes their relative duration, so in fact, it means that after the x=x' formula, in this case, the previous semibreve (four crotchets) lasts for the same period of time as the current dotted semibreve (six crotchets), which really means that the tempo increases by 2/3, and after x'=x it is vice-versa, so the tempo exactly decreases by 2/3 or 66% as you have put it. So the solution in Musescore, as you write, is to create a tempo text, where you set a desired number of BPMs (which you have to count "manually" by dividing or multiplying the previous tempo). As for the notation, unfortunatelly, in current version of the programme you really have to work it around as I described previously (by combining a stave or system text with symbols).
As for your surprise over the formula being "at the beginning" of the piece, I think the reason is that it is a piece from the beginning of the second scene of an opera, so it most probably reflects a necessity of changing the tempo used in the previous parts. Thus I suppose I can delete it.
I am really grateful for the possibility to discuss the problems I encounter. It is much easier to learn how to use the programme properly in this way.
Best wishes
JR