Lyrics: tighten space when no dash?
Background: Currently, the lyrics syllabic dash has a variable length, from a maximum length used when there is ample space progressively shortened, if room between syllables is scarce.
If the dash length should fall below a certain minimum threshold, it is skipped (not drawn at all).
This may leave some blank space between syllables, when the dash is dropped but actual distance between the syllables is > 0.
Just for reference, the current dash length range is from the max. of 0.80sp to the min. of 0.25sp, to which 0.1sp of padding is added at either sides.
Proposal:
The idea is to shift to the left the second syllable, when the dash is dropped, to reclaim the residual blank space and give to the text the look of a continuous word.
A test I am working on gives the following results (above current implementation, below corrected):
To my eye, this looks definitely as an improvement, but I know my needs and my background are not mainstream.
Con:
The right-side syllable, having been shifted, is no longer perfectly aligned to the note head ("gel" and "dan" in the above examples); to me, this seems rather marginal and the oddity of the residual blank space between the two syllables definitely overweights it.
Limitations:
- No attempt is made to reconstruct the kerning which should occur between the last character of the first syllable and the first character of the second syllable (if any).
- No support is expected for cases when the spelling of the word is different when hyphenated and when continuous (I know this happen in some languages, but I cannot remember any example on the spot).
Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions?
Thanks,
M.
Comments
It's been a while since I've sung with a choir, but to me it's much easier to read if there is a bit of a separation between the syllables.
In reply to It's been a while since I've by Isaac Weiss
And I'd rather see the dash.
In reply to And I'd rather see the dash. by Jojo-Schmitz
I don't have a personal preference, but would note there have been quite a few complains about the missing dash, and I don't recall any about the space. So I while don't care about the space one way or another, I would definitely support the idea there should be a way to demand the dash - perhaps a "miniminum dash length" style setting.
In reply to I don't have a personal by Marc Sabatella
As I said, perhaps my needs and my background are not mainstream, but I do not agree: enforcing in any case the space needed for the dash (and the padding on either sides) would add more disruption of the note spacing, in addition to the unevenness already imposed by the different lengths of the text syllables.
Once upon the time, when scores were carefully hand-crafted products (roughly speaking until mid XX c.), writing lyrics as continuous words was common, syllable separation (and then dashes) being used when necessary to cover larger spans; precisely in order to preserve as much as possible the regularity of note value spacing.
Of course, anybody is entitled to prefer the (bad) habits which resulted from the first stages of the adoption of automatic tools, but I choose not to help them.
To my eyes, the above examples definitely show an improvement, but if this improvement goes against the common taste, I am ready to withdraw the proposal.
P.S.: a "minimum dash length" is already implemented; currently it is fixed at 1/4sp and it is not user-configurable, but it is there. The point is what to do when there is not enough space to accommodate this minimum length.
In reply to As I said, perhaps my needs by Miwarre
It *still* is common to always include dashes. I have many scores from many publishers that show this behavior, including many cases where space was obviously increased betwene two notes specifically to allow for the dash. Gould lists the omission of dashes as an acceptable option, but she doens't particularly *recommend* it, and shows a clear preference for including them unless space is very limited. She also specifically says it is "essential" to show the hyphen for words of more than two syllables.
I don't particularly care about making the minimum length configurable, but I definitely feel it should be possible - and frankly should be the default as per the custom in the majority of scores I see - to always show the dashes.
In reply to It *still* is common to by Marc Sabatella
"It *still* is common to always include dashes.": I know, and I count this among the (bad) habits I was speaking about. I also have developed a lack of confidence in Gould's "recommendations" or lack of, since I knew her points on, for instance, key signature changes which are hardly tenable for me.
The nice of open source is that everybody with the knowledge and the will may implement a feature as you describe and submit it. I will not, though, as I see it as a worsening, not an improvement. It might be common today, in the epoch of automated tools, but it was just an option once upon a time and practically all the vocal scores I have seen from other times (since Renaissance to early XX c.) systematically use continuous spelling. And regardless of word length: the rule of the "two syllables" may have some sense for English, but it definitely does not for languages like Italian.
Anyway, should the "forced dash" option be implemented or not, I still maintain that the change proposed at the beginning is an obvious improvement on the current situation and I am bit surprised to be the only one feeling this, but I am going to submit it to github anyway.
In reply to "It *still* is common to by Miwarre
Curious which specific recommendations on key signatures you disagreed with. Everything I have seen seems extremely standard to me.
I guess no one else feels the change you propose matters one way of another because most people want the dash, and having the dash makes the point moot.
In reply to Curious which specific by Marc Sabatella
"Curious which specific recommendations on key signatures you disagreed with": for instance, those quoted here .
"...having the dash makes the point moot": and the score worse looking...
In reply to "Curious which specific by Miwarre
Hmm, I don't see her actually making much of a recommendation at all. The referenced page simply shows the different possibilities and she mentions some as being common in older scores, some being common in Russia in particular, some in France in particular. I don't see her making a strong statement of preferences, except to label one particular arrangement - a non-Russian, non-older, non-French arrangement - as "standard". But she doesn't really give any strong advice about which to use. And as far as I can tell, she is correct about the arrangement she call "standard" - naturals first regardless of circle of fifths - as most printed editions from the past century I have do this, although I can see it varies for sure, just as she says it does. So I don't see the basis for complaint here?