Microtonal
Greetings to everyone,
I' ve been using MuseScore version 0.9.4 (windows) for some time now (soundfont Unison version 1). Lately I had a project on which I had to use microtonal accidentals (byzantine music). I' ve noticed though that placing any of the microtonal accidentals does nothing. I don't know if this is a bug, that's why I'm posting it here under the "General Discussion" topic. Is it supposed not to playback the microtonals?
thanks in advance,
melodos
Comments
Playback of microtonal accidentals is not yet implemented but you can add then to the score for the correct visual effect.
It is worth noting that the actual pitch of mirotonal accidents varies depending on the type of music. From what I understand, Turkish music divides the whole tone into nine mirocrotones, but contemporary western music uses a subset of these symbols and divides the whole tone into 4.
This is just one of the many things that would become possible with Midi controller support. There is a controller that is used to detune notes and a message for that controller could be tied to the micro-accidental. Maybe a menu item could be used to globally set the properties of each type of accidental. That way any type of music could be acomodated. Turkish, western or just "blue" notes in jazz.
In reply to a job for controllers by MDMilford
Let's not forget we may want simply just intonation or meantone instead of equal temperament.
Or I may want to compose microtonally based on Solomon Islands' 6 notes.
Or I may want to use 19-ET, or 36-ET, or even 72-ET...
So the idea of a mapping to accomodate any type of music would be appreciated, letting the user map the symbols to the MIDI major/minor tune codes (Sibelius implemented major/minor MIDI controller support, but we have to type in the codes for each note, which is very cumbersome. A mapping from the accidental symbols+note to the MIDI pitch in 2 integers would be much better.)
greetings again
I had some time transcribing that piece from byzantine notation and frankly my project went pretty good. I didn' t use any of the microtonal accidentals on musescore since I was most interested on playback. Truth is I used a rather unusual scale (D, Eb, F#, G, A, Bb, C#, D,) not as precice as it should, but it did the trick. Ofcourse what David Bolton writes is right; the microtonals are different for each music tradition [eg turkish (9) and european microtonals(4)]. Indeed the best bet would be if we could set the value of the microtonal ourselves, according to our needs, in a less "cumbersome" way as newsong4life suggests.
anyway thanks for the replies.
In reply to on microtonal... by melodos
Minor 2
Minor 3
Minor 2
Major 2
Minor 2
Minor 3
minor 2
What an interesting scale.
Thanks.
In reply to Scale by xavierjazz
It's very frequent in Turkish music. We have a lot of maqam on this scale.
In reply to on microtonal... by melodos
In fact it is SO imprecise that one can't even be sure what scale that should approximate.... Out of curiosity, were you working with the hard or soft chromatic scale? The approximation I think is decent for the hard chromatic, you can still get a feel for it, but if I'm working with soft chromatic the piano just confuses me more than helps. As a side note, if you started your scale on E instead of D, you would eliminate half the accidental (Which you probably know, but just in case:).
In reply to Stupid 12-Tones... by Glendan
I was working on the hard chromatic: πα (6) βου (20) γα (4) δι (12) κε (6) ζω (20) νη (4) πα. The numbers indicate the actual commas in byzantine (and greek) music. What you hear on the piano (and musescore) is D (6) E (18) F (6) G (12) A (6) B (18) C (6) D. The only precise tones though are D-E and A-B. Two sharps (F C) and two flats (E B) do the trick. If you are using the soft (or mixed) chromatic you have πα (6) βου (20) γα (4) δι (12) κε (10) ζω (8) νη (12) πα. But in western european (what cofuses you) that would be: D (6) E (18) F (6) G (12) A (12) B (12) C (6) D. I see you understand byzantine music, that's why I write the tones in byzantine commas.
In reply to I was working on the hard by melodos
Yea, if you were working with the hard, you can pretty much get your feel for the tune even on the piano. What I was saying about the starting note is that Ni = E gives the scale as E F G# A B C D# E, so you don't need the flats, only the sharps. I just find it easier that way is all. Actually, I've started working with violin lately, and it's VERY helpful, since I can play all the scales. I was working on this one song for my songwriting class and it came out in an interesting mixed chromatic scale: 8 - 14 - 8 - 12 - 8 - 10 - 12. At least, that's what I think it is, but possibly 8 -14 - 8 - 12 - 6 - 12 - 12. It also modulates to the hard chromatic in the lower tetrachord here and there. Do either of those scales look like something you know of, or is it something I made up?
In reply to What I meant to say was.... by Glendan
I see.... you start your scale from "βου" (E). You could do that, but the commas you produce would be: E (6) F (18) G (6) A (12) B (6) C (18) D. Which ofcourse is more or less the same in Western European music. What you do though in byzantine music, by starting from "Βου" and playing those tones, is called "τροχός" and it's achieved by creating a "parachord", that is if you place the "phthora" of πα (D) of the "plagal second mode" on βου (E). That allows you to chant, sing or play music starting from E (βου), but using the commas (6-20-4-12-6-20-4 or 6-18-6-12-6-18-6 in Western European) as if you were starting from D (πα). That's what you do with this scale "τροχός με φθορά του πα του πλαγίου β' στον βου" (E F G# A B C D# E).
Now the first mixed chromatic scale you were working on (8-14-8-12-8-10-12) looks like mode second in the "heavy tetrachord": νη (8) πα (14) βου (8). The γα (12) δι is the "diazeytikos" tone and the "light tetrachord" κε (8) ζω (10) νη (12) πα, is still second mode, but it looks like you're placing a "μονόγραμμον ύφεσιν" on "Ζω", a byzantine monogramm flat on "B" that is, which subtracts 4 commas from the κε (14) ζω tone and makes it 10, thus adding those subtracted 4 to the next ζω-νη, which makes it 12. And that's how you got your scale: 8-14-8-12-8-10-12.
The second you write "8 -14 - 8 - 12 - 6 - 12 - 12" I suppose it's the 8-14-8-12-8-10-12 scale transcribed in western european music. If that's the case, where you playing some instrument that produced these tones or were you working on musescore? The last I think it would give you C (6) D (18) E (6) F (12) G (6) A (9) B (15) C.
In reply to I see... by melodos
Of course! Flat Zw! I makes perfect sense :) It's a melody that I came up with out of my head and I sounded it out on the violin, but I don't really play violin, so it's a little difficult for me to tell the difference between 8-10 and 6-12, especially since the tune is coming out of my head, it could be anything. My life would be SO much easier if MuseScore allowed for microtonal adjustments.... But because of the flat Zw I'm sure that's what it is. I can maybe send it to you when it's done if you like.^^
As for the Parachord thing, I don't really make any association between phthorae and Western classical pitches, since my perception of Byzantine music theory is completely intervallic (one of the main reasons I like it so much). So, if you start your scale on E, then E = Ni; if you start your scale on F, then F = Ni; if you start your scale on A#, then A# = Ni; and so forth.
P.S. You wouldn't happen to know the complete set of accidentals as defined by the PMC, would you?
In reply to Aha! by Glendan
certainly, I'd love to see it when it's done.
The complete set of accidentals as defined by the PMC. These are 8 (four sharps and four flats) the "simple", the "monogramm", the "digramm" and the "trigramm", each adding or subtracting 2, 4, 6, and 8 commas respectively.
Now, the "parachords" and the "trochos" are not easy to understand, if you don't know the theory. But as I've wrote on my last post, by starting from E (thus making E=νη) is more or less the same in western european music, meaning you can start your scale however you like, as long as you get results. In byzantine music, though, things are quite different. I don't want to start posting byzantine music theory here, because this post was about the microtonal playback on musescore, it gets way out of hand now. If you have any questions about byzantine music, I'd be more than happy to answer them, but not here.
Since you mention it violin is a "non fret" instrument, since you have to know exactly where to place you fingers on the strings to play a good intonation. Instruments like that (ud, buzuq, saz, tanbur) are more handy when dealing with microtonal music. If you have any more questions, Glendan, feel free to e-mail me!
It would be actually very nice if Musescore could handle the quarter tones accidentals. I bet there are composers who would be excited about Musescore if it can do that. The only score editor I know about which is capable of handling quarter notes is Sibelius but it is not done very nicely. You can edit the score with quarter tone accidentals but for playback you must use the plugin so you do not have a constant ear-feedback of what you are editting.
Musescore could become a unique solution for writing a quarter tone music!
I attached an example of quarter tone accidental marks that are commonly used (standrad accidentals + half-sharp, one and half-sharp, half-flat and one and half-flat).
In reply to Quarter tones by jan_
hi jan,
In his reply to me (at the begining of the post) about microtonal playback on Musescore, David Bolton commented that it's not yet implemented.I suppose we may see it on later versions. It will be very handy for many types of music indeed!
In reply to Quarter tones by jan_
Just for the completion and to prevent some confusion - in the attachment with quarter tone accidentals I forgot to write b(flat) in 7th note - it should have been just normal A-flat...
And otherwise - yea, it would be great if it appears in Musescore one day :)
Out of curiosity, does anyone know when we might be able to expect implementation for microtonal playback on MuseScore? Has the author said anything yet?
In reply to Time Schedule by Glendan
Latest revsion (1807) implements a new feature to fine tune every note +/- 200 (midi)cents. This should allow for experimenting with microtonal playback. Proper playback is only possible with the internal synthesizer.
In reply to Latest revsion (1807) by [DELETED] 3
It does? Version 0.9.4? How do you do so? Makes my life SO much easier! >.<
In reply to Really?? by Glendan
The next windows prerelease ( > r1807) which you can find at http://prereleases.musescore.org/windows will have the microtonal enhancements on board which Werner implemented.
You can be notified when the next prerelease comes online by following MuseScore on Twitter or pulling in the Twitter RSS feed or by following MuseScore on Facebook.
In reply to Latest revsion (1807) by [DELETED] 3
How do I get that, because I have the new Musescore 1.1 and I want to experiment with microtones on my next piece.
In reply to How do I get that, because I by ARobinsonization
MuseScore 1.1 has that facility.
Just pull up the Note Properties dialogue and fine tune away.