Problem scoring for drumset - esp. voices
I'm a first-time user. When I enter notes for one voice like hi-hat, which I set to voice 4, trying to enter other voices in the same bar messes it up! For instance, I set snare drum voice to 3, and when I enter snare notes they replace the hat notes. If I try to add toms (voice 2), the software refuses to give it its own line and attaches its eighth-note flag to the snare's previous note with a beam. If the new tom note is below an existing snare note, it gives both stems up or down but not up for the snare and down for the toms.
Also, every other time I go to Notes Entry Mode the drumset input palette doesn't appear.
Then again sometimes it all works -- see encl. Is the problem I don't select properly? or just don't understand how voices work? or Windows 7 messes with the software?
Much thanks
Clueless in St Louis
Comments
Welcome merrickfelder , I don't know if it is the correct method but you can try this:
General'y you are asking for trouble trying to use more than two voices on drum parts - it should virtually never be necessary and would usually do nothing but cause you trouble. so I'm thinking you may be misunderstanding something about how voices work. could you explain what you are actually trying to do here?
that said, keep on mind the default voice settings only apply to the keyboards shortcuts. other input methods work more normally - using the currently selected voice in the toolbar.
In reply to General'y you are asking for by Marc Sabatella
Thanks so much, all the comments have been helpful! Especially your comments, Marc, are just what I needed -- I did not understand voices. Now I have changed everything to voices 1 and 2, but I still have the problem of two instruments having different rhythms, say hi-hat and snare. (It's possible I have a windows problem bcs my computer is doing some other strange things, like I am unable to change noteheads.) Also, I can't find what voices 3 and 4 are for other than SATB scores. Could these help solve the prob of different rhythms?
In reply to Thanks so much, all the by merrickfelder
Check this video maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iguDQRYfSw
In reply to Thanks so much, all the by merrickfelder
Again, in order to help, we'd need you to post the updated score and describe as precisely as possible what the problem you are having is. The default drumset definition already correctly handles hi-hat and snare if you use the keyboard shortcuts. If you use another method of entering the notes you may need to also select the voice icons. but in general, it should work just fine. Do you have some special reason to have modified the defualt drumset? probably best not to do so until you full understand how things work. So maybe try again using the default drumset and then ask questions if you continue to have difficulty.
BTW, voices 3 & 4 would not be used in SATB scores - these are two voices per staff, voices 1 & 2 always. The main time you'd need a third voice is for piano or guitar music where there are literally three different rhythms going on at once in the same staff. This basically is never needed for drums, because even though you have four limbs and can conceptually have *four* rhythms at once, the fact that drum notes usually have no meaningful duration means you can always represent those four rhythms using a single voice if you adjust the durations accordingly.
In reply to Again, in order to help, we'd by Marc Sabatella
With lots of respect, I must differ: I know drummers that can play 5 against 3 with two hands. In the encl. file, measure 6 has two different rhythms for two hands. In desperation I moved the snare notes to voice 2 in order to show it this way; but elsewhere there is supposed to be bass drum doing quarter notes along with it, and this is what I can't do.
Again, I appreciate the help!
In reply to With lots of respect, I must by merrickfelder
Nothing about playing five against three requires more than two voices, and as I mentioned, it's actually possible to notate that using a single voice (hint: start with 15-plet). Not that most people use a single voice, but actually, some publishers *do* notate drum music this way. But with two voices, it should be a snap to notate anything.
Measure six is a good example. What you call two different rhythms for the two hands is actually notated very simply with a single voice. Simply change the quarter note you have for the hi-hat on beat three in voice 1 into an eighth note, and then you can put the snare drum notes back in voice 1. Then you can add the bass drum in voice 2 - and if there is another part (eg, hi-hat pedal) you wish to combine with this, you can use the same technique to represent both of these two parts with a single voice.
Again, this is the standard technique when writing drum parts - it's what I meant about taking advantage of the fact that duration doesn't really have meaning for drum notes. All upstem notes go in one voice, all downstem notes in another, using this same technique to combinate what might seem like independent rhythms into a single voice.
For example, here is your measure six with the snare drum moved back to voice 1, and random bass drum and hi-hat pedal notes added to voice 2:
In reply to Nothing about playing five by Marc Sabatella
I understand, thank you. In bar 6 I have added back the rolls and made adjustments with vertical offset -- plus for fun added the BD which occurs later.
P.S. BTW I meant 5 vs. 3 with the bass playing 2 or 4 (my brother played this for me once).
P.P.S. Yes, I will be buying your book!
In reply to I understand, thank you. In by merrickfelder
:-)
I just realized, your hi-hat notes are the wrong ones to indicate pedal. They should be below the staff and in voice 2 (stems down). So it's really voice 2 that needs to use the duration trick to combine parts (hi-hat and bass drum); voice 1 should be just snare.
BTW, note that when I said it's *possible* to do everything in one voice, I didn't mean it actually made sense to in all or even most cases. Again, the majority of publishers you two voices. The most common arrangement in the US and most other countries is to use one voice for hands, the other for feet (from what I recall, a few use one voice for left limbs, the other for right). So you would only need the 15-plets I mentioned to notate your example in standard two-voice drum notation. This *might* be a case where one would resort to a third voice for clarity, but I assume you will agree this is an extreme case, rarely actually notated.
In reply to :-) I just realized, your by Marc Sabatella
OMG I see you're totally right -- although I'd better talk it over first with Charlie who'll actually be playing it tomorrow or he'll go crazy. Should probably make the notes staccato to indicate not to let it ring?
Brings up an interesting Q! How to write jazz: dah__ dut dut dah__ dut dut . . . open then closed? Oh well, cross that bridge . . .
BTW this software is simply astounding, esp. being free. I gifted Sibelius to my big brother but couldn't afford it myself. Infinite kudos to the dedicated programmers!!
In reply to OMG I see you're totally by merrickfelder
Staccato would almost lnever be used in drum parts. Unless you have somoe special unusual technique in mind you are trying, stick with standard notation.
Not sure what you are asking about with respect to jazz - sounds like you are describing a ride rhythm, quarter and two eighths over and over, all notated in voice one as per the standard drummer definition.
Yes, I meant swing in the rhythm you mention, open and closed hat, and I see there's a line for that now, thx.
But I'm going to quit bugging you till I know a little about what I'm doing. Hopefully the band can read my little addendum to a Tom Wallace arrangement at the rehearsal in an hour.
In reply to Yes, I meant swing in the by merrickfelder
You should probably also include the pedal hat on 2 & 4 when notating that pattern. I guess it's implied by the fact that you are showing closed hi hat, but it's really the pedal on 2 & 4 people are accustomed to seeing and will key off when reading.
In reply to You should probably also by Marc Sabatella
Good, I will next time -- although for this arrangement I have Charlie playing the beat on the closed hat throughout.