Volume difference: Desktop vs Website
Is there a way to make the website score play at the same volume as the desktop score? All scores that I upload are much louder on the website, typically volume=9 for the web is the same as 27 for the desktop. I can obviously reduce the web volume but a range of only 1-9 doesn't give much room to play with.
Comments
It's important to realzie the volume you hear in MsueScore is the volume you hear, but the volume on musescore.com is the volume everyone hears. So unless you want to force everyone else to set their speakers the same way you do, it would be unwise to mess with the volume for the website to make your score different than everyone else's. The idea is that, just as with radio or TV< there should be a relatively similar volume level from one song or program to the next, otherwise you would constantly have to fiddle with your volume knobs just because the person who recorded the song happened to like listening louder or softer than you do. The listener should be in charge of setting the volume.
In reply to It's important to realzie… by Marc Sabatella
OK, I'd best leave well alone. It just seems a bit strange that the website gives me so little volume to play with. 1 is too quiet and 12 is too loud, (and I'm hard of hearing). I've just compared using Chrome on Android and 90% of the volume range is useable. In fact I couldn't make the score unbearable loud. Maybe there's something going on with Chrome on Windows.
In reply to OK, I'd best leave well… by yonah_ag
The website isn't controlling your setting in the Windows mixer, that is your own doing. You are welcome to set the volume however you like. You're the one choosing to set it to 9, not MuseScore or musescore.org.
The audio should be "normalized", which is to say,l set to the same peak volume as virtually every other piece of audio you hear online.
In reply to The website isn't… by Marc Sabatella
Yes, indeed, I am manually choosing the volume level in the Windows mixer for both MS Desktop playback and, separately, Chrome playback.
The Windows mixer allows levels of 0 to 100.
With MS desktop the useable windows mixer volume range is from 5 (very quiet) to 40 (very loud) but with Chrome playback of a .com upload the same volume range only requires 1 (very quiet) to 12 (very loud). So I get 36 useable loudness levels on Desktop but only 12 on .com.
For a comfortable level I use around 27 for MS Desktop which is the same loudness as 9 on MS.com which just seems a bit odd but maybe it is just the normalisation.
My speakers are headphones with no volume control of their own.
In reply to Yes, indeed, I am manually… by yonah_ag
I'm not understanding the sense in which you are claiming there are something other than exactly 200 usable levels for all programs at all times. Is something preventing you from moving the slider above 9? Could be a Windows bug I guess? or you are just saying you personally are finding 9 a comfortable volume for online music given your current speaker setup? That's fine, but that doesn't mean 100 levels aren't available to you. Sounds, though, like you might be better off turning down your speakers.
In reply to I'm not understanding the… by Marc Sabatella
Sorry, I"m not explaining well. Yes, 100 levels are always available for each item in the Windows mixer.
If I move the windows mixer slider for Chrome to above 9 it will be very loud. If I moved it to over 15 I would probably damage my hearing.
To achieve a similar damaging level with the mixer slider for MS desktop I would need to move it to about 50. (Level 15 here would be on the quiet side).
The Chrome playback of .com scores is so loud that I need to pull the slider right down to about 9 for a comfortable level. This same comfortable level from MS Desktop requires the slider at a much more sensible 27. This is what the image is trying to show: equivalent volume levels for Chrome vs. Desktop require very different Windows mixer levels. I was only wondering why such different mixer levels are required to achieve the same volume level.
Seems like it may just be normalisation.
I can't turn my speakers down: they are headphones.
In reply to Sorry, I"m not explaining… by yonah_ag
WIndows provides volume control for your headphone. Definitelty recommended to turn it down if you are having to resort to the system mixer (which should be a very rare operation compared to using the ordinary volume control!) and turn Chrome down all the way to 9%. You are risking serious hearing damage if your speakers are that loud - all it will take is one program that you forget to turn down and your ear drums will not forgive you.
None of this has anything to do with musescore.com. As mentioned, volume levels are standardized across virtually all online music, so the volume at which you hear music on musescore.com is the same as the volume at which you hear music on YouTube or any other website that provides music.
No idea what MS Desktop is or what sounds it produces - do you mean the various chimes and bells that happen when you hit a wrong button? No surprise if those aren't very loud. But most sounds coming from your computer will be generated by other applications that will use "normal" volume levels. So it is crucial that your overall headphone volume be at a place where there general default volume from any application will be reasonable.
In reply to WIndows provides volume… by Marc Sabatella
MS Desktop is the Musescore Desktop 3.6.2 software for Windows 10.
It seemed to me that, for any given Windows volume setting, musescore.com was louder than Musescore Desktop. To confirm this I chose a score and compared the loudness by having this score open in ms.com and Musescore Desktop at the same time.
To play the score at the same loudness I had reduce the volume of ms.com: from 27 down to 9.
My overall volume control is placed at a healthy default of around 27 and this is not very loud. (I am very careful with my hearing since I am totally deaf in 1 ear). Level 27 would be deafening with musescore.com playback so I turn the volume down to 9.
I have checked Chrome with YouTube videos and volume level 27 is again suitable so it appears only to be musescore.com that requires turning down. I guess it's the normalisation.
I have also checked with Chrome on Android and it does not have this loudness difference.
In reply to MS Desktop is the Musescore… by yonah_ag
You must have checked some very quiet YouTube videos then. There is no physical way musescore.com can play an audio file louder than normal volume, that defeats the definition of what "normalizing* means. I absolutely guarantee if you find audio files played on musescore.com to be too loud at 7, then there are millions of other audio files you will also find too loud. Because it's physically impossible for it to be otherwise,. musescore.com is not magic, it plays audio using the exact same mechanism as any other website.
So again, if you find one particular website to be too loud at 27, then please do your self a favor and do not risk further hearing loss - don't make the mistake of believing musescore.com is somehow playng music louder than other websites. It isn't because it cannot, techdigitial audio just doesn't work that way. if musescore.com has the ability to be too loud for you, so does any website. So set your volume levels accordingly.
It is true that programs that are not web based and thus do not use normalized audio - like MuseScore - may possibly play softer. In the case of MuseScore That would depend on the dynamics in the piece. A piece marked "pp" will play softer than one marked "ff" of course.
In reply to You must have checked some… by Marc Sabatella
I'm sorry but I can't explain this any better. There is no problem playing too loud. The question is between Musescore Desktop vs. Chrome/musescore.com. There is a huge difference in loudness. I don't know why, but this is a simp!e fact in my setup. It is only this difference in loudness which is odd. I have no problem in turning Chrome/.com down to preserve my hearing.
I checked my score uploads to YouTube.
In reply to I'm sorry but I can't… by yonah_ag
Yes, as I have already explain, msuescore.com, like virtually every music-related website in the world, uses normalized audio. This is so the music there is the same volume as other music you find online. MuseScore itself doesn't normalize its audio, so if you play an inherent,y quiet score, it will be quiet, and if you play an inherently loud one, it's loud. This is perfectly normal and how audio has worked for decades.
In reply to MS Desktop is the Musescore… by yonah_ag
I am curious as to how and why Chrome shows up on your volume mixer.
In reply to I am curious as to how and… by bobjp
I don't know. Doesn't it do this on every PC when playing a .com score?
I see sliders for: headphones, system sounds, Chrome and Musescore.
In reply to I am curious as to how and… by bobjp
I have just tried on another Windows 10 computer and the mixer looks like this:
With these settings the Chrome playback is way, way louder than Musescore3.
MS3 is a good medium loudness but Chrome is unbearably loud.
In reply to I have just tried on another… by yonah_ag
Once again, that's simply because MuseScore isn't playing normalized audio like you find online, and you happen to be testing using a score that isn't that loud. Play a large ensemble score that's marked "fff" and you'll hear something different.
Again, musescore.com cxannot perform magic tricks. Normalized audio is normalized audio. The normalized audio played by musescore.conm is the same volume as the normalize audio played by any other web site. It's physically impossible for it to be otherwise. If musescore.com is producing sounds you find too loud at 27%, then any website is capable of producing audio that loud, and any website specializing in music most certainly will, because it will normalize the audio like everyone else does.
And if you think MuseScore itself doesn't play that loud, try the score here. Please: not at 27%!
In reply to Once again, that's simply… by Marc Sabatella
Duh! and apologies
I finally get it. Musescore desktop sound output is not normalised so I'm not comparing like-for-like. Thanks for your patience: hopefully I didn't spike your blood pressure. Sorry!
:-)
In reply to Duh! and apologies Thanks… by yonah_ag
No problem, glad to have cleared this up! And to be clear, the reason MuseScore's playback isn't normalized is, normalization is something you do with a finished product, not something you are still editing. It would be incredibly distracting if every time you added or removed a dynamic marking in one place in the score, or added or removed instruments, it changed the volume of the rest of the score also because now the peak volume has changed. And in any case, MuseScore has its own volume slider to set its output volume.
So this is pretty much universal in the audio industry. Editing tools work on the raw audio and also provide their own output volume controls so you can work with the audio at the volume you prefer. But the last step of the "mastering" process (the final touches before publishing, whether that means pressing CD's, uploading to the Internet, sending to radio stations, etc) is to normalize the audio. Actually, most professionally-produced recordings compress the dynamic range here - not just bringing everything up nuiformly to get the peak up to the nominal max, but then also bringing the softer passages up further so they are almost as loud as peaks. That's why music you hear on the radio typically seems to lack dynamics.
In reply to No problem, glad to have… by Marc Sabatella
The scary thing is that I used to mix live sound and produce a recording of it – normalised – before saving as an MP3 file for streaming. I must be working too hard: time for some Thomas Tallis.