Note entry NOT from start of bar impossible?

• Sep 10, 2021 - 11:49

Something seems to have changed - I cannot seem to enter say, an 8th note, anywhere but from the start of the bar. I cannot use note entry and choose where to drop the note, it only follows the grid of the bar, unless I put a note at the start of the bar, in which case it then allows me to go forwards at the value of that note entered, but still I cannot skip values to go say to the last 8th note in the bar - do I really have to enter rests all the way through the bar just to enter the last 8th note? I've been mainly working from imported XMLs so haven't really come across this, but either the setting on my Musescore is wrong, or this is a serious missing feature (I cannot believe it is that!) - in Dorico the grid snaps to the value of whichever note you choose, and the cursor moves accordingly for note entry, using the arrow left and right keys. Is this not the case in Musescore? When I use the arrow I just move to the next bar.

I'm sure I'm doing something very wrong here! Please tell me I've turned something off - I cannot find a "snap" function.


In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Ouch! That is SO cumbersome and painful, especially when working with multiple voices.

I sincerely hope that Musescore 4 is going to play catch up on this, seriously that has shot a hole in my admiration of MS, I may have to go back to Dorico. So, I have bars of half-notes moving some chords on an accordion, and want to add a couple of little 16th note melodies in another voice just before the end of the 2nd and 4th beats - wow, now that is really clumsy and slow.....

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Well, in the example I'm working on at the moment, in order to enter the little pickup note (in a second voice) before the chord on beat 3 I have to first add a dotted 1/4 note rest, then a 16th note rest, then the 16th note I want, then another dotted 1/4 note rest then another 16th note rest and finally my last 16th note - how is that not cumbersome rather than selecting a grid of 16th notes and hovering the cursor to the appropriate beat?

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Ah well, it' probably not a deal breaker but it's a shame - there are so many things I love about MS, but being able to quickly generate a score is important to me, and this slows down the work flow. I guess I need to complete a new score from scratch rather than imported XMLs to find out how much of a hindrance. The limitations of Dorico Elements (and the limits of my wallet) brought me to MS, I hope I can make it work for me.

One of those "guess I need to keep shortcuts in my head for BOTH programs for a while yet so I can seamlessly compare"....situations!

In reply to by [DELETED] 37205164

The way I see it, rests take ink just like notes do. When writing by hand, you need to write the rests, and we write them left to right. Also, if the measure started with notes, you'd need to write them, whether by hand or using MuseScore.

So I've never really understood why it seems like a computer program should somehow special case those situations where a note comes in after rests, and in those special cases only, change the workflow so you don't enter left to right like you do everything else, but instead suddenly start skipping around and then have the computer try to guess based on where your mouse is how many rests you want to enter. Entering rests left to right is exactly as natural and fast as entering notes left to right - no loss of efficiency.

And in any case, if the goal is to be more efficient, using the keyboard is easily several times faster than the mouse. So I strongly encourage you to get a handle on keyboard entry.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

With the greatest respect Marc, sometimes you defend the indefensible! There is absolutely no reason why a computer program should be analogous to the procedure under pen and paper. Let's have a page turn icon bottom right then....and whilst we're at it a Tipex icon for erasing wrong notes.

The whole point of composing or scoring on a computer is to allow us to do what we simply cannot do with pen and paper. Does your paper score play back what you've written?

Musescore automatically calculates the rests and enters them following an entry of a 32nd note at the start of the bar - I'm no computer programmer but I'll put money on it not being a coder's nightmare to do it in reverse - does the concept of reverse even exist in code land?

Sorry but on this one you're wrong. Bring MS up to date, I can only speak for Dorico but if they have it cracked (and as their designers came from Sibelius I'll bet Sib handles it similarly) - it is poor programming to expect us to enter all the rests for notes we do not want before we can enter the note we do.

Straw poll amongst users and I'll bet everyone would rather the Dorico model for this particular function. Perhaps if you've used MS from its inception it seems like no big deal. But coming from another world it feels most odd, most cumbersome and a not at all clever use of computing power in the 21st century.

Rant over! But I'm seriously considering an upgrade to Dorico as I'm not enjoying having to back-think rests when allI want to do is add a couple of 16th notes right "here", and now!

In reply to by [DELETED] 37205164

I don't think anyone is saying that keyboard note entry isn't more efficient. And yet I don't see what is inefficient about hovering the mouse over any beat and clicking a note into existence without having to pre-fill the measure. One action vs how many using the keyboard? Other notation programs have been doing it for years.

Is faster better? I suppose it depends on the job you are doing. I use MS for composition. Speed of note entry is less important to me than ease of note entry. I use a rollerball mouse. Much of what I do can be done with just the thumb and forefinger of my right hand. I don't have to remember a lot keyboard commands. I just get to write my music.

Sure, you have to always think left to right if you use the keyboard. Not so much with the mouse.

In reply to by bobjp

It's not just mouse entry that is grid choosable in Dorico. Once in note entry the divisions of the bar (snap value if you like) are shown in orange, and the note entry point can be accessed using the left and right arrows or the mouse, and note entry can be via keyboard, midi keyboard or mouse, so all options are open for fast and accurate note entry. It's very quick to zip forward or backwards to any point in the bar to add notes or rests.

I've just started a new score from scratch and decided to go back to Dorico to test, and once I'd reminded myself of a few shortcuts I'm finding it far quicker using a combination of midi keyboard and mouse entry. As this score has less than 12 instruments I can use Dorico.....I'm really torn cos I do like MS, and love the open source philosophy, but in the end getting the job done without tearing my hair out or losing my "flow" will be the deciding factor for smaller ensembles. If there's a sale or someone selling a Dorico license at a price I can afford I expect I'd go for it. But hey, I may still be Musescoring in a few months - we'll have to see.

In reply to by [DELETED] 37205164

There is nothing indefensible about writing music left to right or using the keyboard for maximum efficiency. Not saying that it would be impossible to someday add even more options to provide additional entry methods. I'm simply observing that the current methods are actually amazingly efficient once mastered.

There is no 'wrong" end to software design. Just different ways of working. MuseScore is designed currently to support the standard left-to-right workflow, and tweaked for maximum efficiency when using the keyboard. It is of course quite possible to design software in other ways, including methods that might make the mouse somewhat less efficient than it otherwise is by allowing random entry rather than left-to-right. It doesn't mean software designed to work left to right and be most efficient with keyboard is wrong.

BTW - adding rests at the end of a bar is simple, you already know the exact time position and duration of the note that was just entered. Adding rests at the beginning of the bar requires guessing based on where you clicked, what time position you wanted. It's not impossible, but it's qualitatively different.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

There is nothing random about mouse entry in other notation software. If the default is set to eighths, the cursor snaps to those positions regardless of whether the measure is empty or not. A note (or rest) can be placed on the off beat of three. No guesswork. Rests are then filled in. There is no compelling reason to work left to right in this case. Obviously, we work left to right most of the time, but not always.

In reply to by bobjp

The only way to click on beat 3 is if there are two quarter-note rests (or a half-note rest) in the measure to place something clickable at beat 3. If you have a whole-note rest in the measure, the only clickable thing is beat 1: where the whole-note rest sits.

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