Flucuating Flute Tone

• Jun 10, 2022 - 15:45

I am having the following problem with the result of synthesizing a flute tone in
MuseScore. The intensity, or volume, of the tone fluctuates in a beat like manner.
The problem is more obvious during single tone crescendos and diminuendos but also
occurs when a tone is sustained at a fixed volume level.

I am not sure if the problem is due to the quality of the sound card in my computer,
drift in digital oscillators, or some flaw in the soundfont being used. This is
the information I have.

  • MuseScore Version: 3.2.3
  • Operating System: Ubuntu Linux 20.04.3 LTS (Focal Fossa)

The problem occurs with both of the following soundfonts with varying severity.

  • MuseScore_General_Full.sf2
  • MuseScore_General_HQ.sf3
  • Sound Card: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 0: ALC256 Analog [ALC256 Analog]
    (This implies the Linux ALSA driver is installed.))

The rest of the synthesizer settings have default values but note that "To Expressive" is set.
Similarly, all the mixer settings have default values and the instrument is just "Flute".

For your convenience, a copy of a score segment that produces the problem is attached to this note.
Also, in case it is relevant, I am monitoring the MuseScore output with fairly high quality
speakers which are not connected to my computer via Bluetooth. Instead they can be connected
either via a headphone jack or USB port.

I have one other tangential question. Do instrumental tones synthesized with MuseScore
have complete and realistic formants ?

Finally, could the problem have something to do with "Expressive Sounds" being enabled
by default ? Personally, neither myself, nor do most modern composers, use the expressivo marking
because it doesn't have any meaning relative to audible sounds.

Attachment Size
junk6.pdf 28.91 KB

Comments

• Jun 10, 2022 - 17:07

The only difference between the expr and non-expr versions of sounds is whether they respond to single-note dynamics (eg, crescendo on a whole note) or not.

Your version of MuseScore is several years old now, best to update. For Linux specifically, it's unfortunately usually the case that repositories are way out of date, and also, they often dobn't build correctly, leading to strange problems. So first step is to get the current AppImage, from this site, and use that instead.

If the problem continues, please attach your actual score - we can't tell much from just a picture.

Reply

• Jun 10, 2022 - 17:24

Hi Mark:

Thank you for the recommendations. Also, note that my sould card reproduces timbres
pretty accurately from MP3 downloads so I don't really think that is the problem.

MuseScore works quite well for reproducing pitches and is useful to assessing the harmonic
effect of pitches with large registral displacements. However, I don't know how useful it
is for assessing timbres. I still would like to know how accurately the synthesize is
at producing formants and overtone clusters.

A copy of the score is attached to thiis note.

Best Regards,

Paul R.

Attachment Size
junk6.mscz 5.45 KB

Reply

• Jun 10, 2022 - 17:35

I can't speak to questions about the particular samples used in the soundfonts you have tried, but I can suggest you try other soundfonts as well if there are aspects of these that aren't working for you.

Looks like you haven't updated yet, so whatever you're hearing could conceivably be a bug fixed years ago. So again, that should be your first priority. Whether or not it addresses this, it will fix literally thousands of other bugs, plus add quite a few nice new features.

As it is, listening through headphones in MuseScore 3.6.2, I hear normal vibrato and what is presumably a looped sample, but nothing obviously wrong, and not especially different from how it sounds without the crescendo. maybe it's just the vibrato you mean? That was probably how the flautist that was sampled actually played the note, although there might have been some simulated vibrato added to the soundfont by whomever designed the soundfont.

As for how "accurate" the synthesizer is, it accurate plays back the sample that was recorded in the soundfont. So it's exactly as accurate as the soundfont itself. But also note, real isntruments are capable of a hundred different types of attacks and sounds even on a single note a single dynamic level, based on use of tongue, embochure, diphragm, and of course the specific model of instrument and mouthpiece, etc. MuseScore, like pretty much any syntehszier, gives you a single sound - flute playing C5 at mf sounds exact the same each time. That's not realistic in itself, even if it's an absolutely perfect reproduction of how one flautist played one note on one recording.

Reply

• Jun 10, 2022 - 17:46

Hi:

I guess I need to try the version you suggested before I can comment much more.
However, it would be extremely unusual for a flute player to use vibrato on
a C5 note, and definitely fall in the area of a special effect rather than normal
practice. Of couse, I realize reproduction can't be perfect due to oscillator
drift etc.

Do you have any insight about formant production fidelity ?

Best Regards,

Paul R.

Reply

• Jun 10, 2022 - 21:18

Could be unusual to use that much vibrato, but if that's what the soundfont contains, that's what MuseScore plays. A soundfont-based synth is not a complicated thing, so if the sound was sampled in a way you like, you can be pretty confident it will playback that way too. If you don't like the way a particular soundfont was recorded, try another.

Reply

• Jun 12, 2022 - 16:11

Vibrato on flute and woodwinds is a tricky business and cannot be used with the same degree
of latitude as in the case of strings. Generally, except in specific styles of music, it should
not be used unless explicitly scored. Unfortunately, there is no standard notation for flute
vibrato.

You can clarify vibrato use in score and part notes with the following kinds of phrases.

* Never use vibrato.
* Use vibrato as desired.
* Do not use vibrato unless notated.

A suggested way of notating vibrato is to put the script letter v followed by the vibrato symbol
above the notes where vibrato is be used, as shown by the attached example. (Please excuse the lousy
script v.) This notation should be clarified in the notes if it is used.

There are practical reasons for limiting the use of flute vibrato. For instance, if the flute interacts
with other instruments to produce a delicate timbre, using vibrato is likely to destroy the timbre
intended by the composer.

Attachment Size
example.pdf 36.36 KB

Reply

• Jun 13, 2022 - 13:55

I guess maybe you are thinking of section playing in an orchestra or other large ensemble? Certainly the majority of flute soloists use vibrato quite liberally, especially in post-Romantic music. Ideally there would be separate sets of samples for different musical contexts. I'll be interested to see what the new MuseScore 4 "Muse Orchestra" sampler brings!

Reply

• Jun 13, 2022 - 16:19

I was mostly considering ensembles ranging from chamber groups of five through small orchestras.
By post-Romantic do you mean late romantic through early 20th century music ? If so, I understand
what you mean.

Pieces that feature the flute as a solo instrument are a different animal than others, and as we
both observed, how vibrato is used depends on the style of music. For instance, most players would
consider it "weird" to use heavy vibrato in Vivaldi Flute Concerto both for stylistic reasons and
the fact that the articulations make it unfeasible.

I made a slight modification in my recommended vibrato notation, mostly because it is
easier to demonstrate on manually produced sheet music than that produced with MuseScore.
I think the attached example makes the notation clear.

Attachment Size
example.pdf 710.06 KB

Reply

• Jun 13, 2022 - 17:07

I also mean pop, jazz, etc. Lots of things are possible, and similar issues exist for other instruments in terms of different approaches for different styles, to say nothing of basic issues like how different articulations actually produce different attacks, not just affect the length or volume of the note. SoundFont technology doesn't really have any way to deal with any of these things, which is why MuseScore 4 is focusing more on VST instruments and the new home-grown "Muse Orchestra" that hopefully will be available in some sort of beta version soon.

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• Jun 11, 2022 - 05:21

I've got a 25mb Expressive Flute I compiled from three velocity layed samples from SSO you might like to try.
Low velocity samples are without the vibrato effect, medium have a small amout of vibrato and are long un-looped samples, very high velocity include a hint of over-blown flute.
You can down load it from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DAbIitPRUUGidrhVt4wiwwXrSxOD7RDY/view?…
Its also available from my site: https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/

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