Switching 4/4 to 5/4
Referring to the attached file: measure 1 and 2 are good, then when I get measure 3, there are 5 beats. I switch to 5/4. The playback is too slow and I want the bass note to sustain through the 2 notes following it.
What do you know?
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| 4-4--5-4.mscz | 11.28 KB |
Comments
In your example score, measures 3 and 4 are empty, so it's hard to comment.
But the tempo remains as 70 bpm throughout, so all the 5/4 measures will have a duration longer than the preceding 4/4 measures. A measure with 5 beats lasts longer than a measure with 4 beats. Is that what you mean by "playback is too slow"?
In reply to In your example score,… by DanielR
Oh, sorry, yes the last measure with stuff in it is the one I meant
Maybe you want a 5-let instead?
In reply to Maybe you want a 5-let… by Jojo-Schmitz
I'm not clear what you mean ... a 5-let, i.e. a tuplet over the whole measure?
In reply to Oh, sorry, yes the last… by allelopath
Yes
In reply to Yes by Jojo-Schmitz
What Jojo is suggesting is this, to fit 5 quarter notes into a 4/4 measure:
![Nested tuplets.png]( "Nested tuplets.png")
"... and I want the bass note to sustain through the 2 notes following it."
![Voice 2 for notes in a different rhythm.png]( "Voice 2 for notes in a different rhythm.png")
It's not quite clear: do you mean sustain through the duration of the three 1/8th triplet notes? Or the duration of two of the quintuplets? Either way, you can do that by notating the bass notes in Voice 2:
See the Handbook section about Voices:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/voices
In reply to What Jojo is suggesting is… by DanielR
Thanks, I've not done nested tuplets before. Your comment is very helpful.
Just a suggestion, but seeing as Jojo's solution gives what is effectively a 15-let, which is very close to the length of the 16th notes in the previous bars, maybe what you want is actually a time signature of 15/16 (and no tuplets) so the speed doesn't change at all?
In reply to Just a suggestion, but… by Rose Egbert
This is interesting. I will play with it. Never would have occurred to me!
One learns much about music through composition.
In reply to This is interesting. I will… by allelopath
Sorry. This is among the most unreadable notations I have ever seen. I have no idea what it means.
In reply to Sorry. This is among the… by bobjp
@bobjp
This whole tuplet debate is an attempt to solve the OP's original problem:
"when I get measure 3 [actually m.5], there are 5 beats. I switch to 5/4. The playback is too slow"
These are the two suggestions so far to fit five beats into a 4/4 time signature (so the measure duration remains constant during playback):
![Tuplet suggestions.png]( "Tuplet suggestions.png")
What would your preferred solution be?
In reply to @bobjp This whole tuplet… by DanielR
I understand. But it's one thing to have notation that MuseScore understands, and quite another to have sight-readable notation for a real player. As a result I like neither solution. I wouldn't write anything close.
In reply to @bobjp This whole tuplet… by DanielR
That actually isn't what I was suggesting at all. I was saying to drop a 16th and make the measure shorter.
In reply to That actually isn't what I… by Rose Egbert
My apologies, I misunderstood the intention!
In reply to Sorry. This is among the… by bobjp
@bobjp:
It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.
In reply to @bobjp: It is better to… by allelopath
Sorry for your rude, holier than thou, attitude.
In reply to Sorry for your rude, holier… by bobjp
I'm not. You made a contrary, argumentative statement, didn't say what exactly what you had a problem with, and had no remedy or solution proposed.
In reply to I'm not. You made a contrary… by allelopath
Sorry. but the reason I have no solution is because it is totally unclear what you are doing. Is this your own composition? Are you transcribing something? What is the end goal of measure 5? Is it a change of feel? Obviously triplets are going to playback too slow. Do you want to keep 5/4? Based on the little information you have given us, I can only suggest a rather poor idea in my measure 4. A slight change of feel. but not tempo.
You could increase the tempo for the 5/4 sections by multiplying by 5/4. So 70 bpm would become 70 * 5/4 = 87.5 bpm. This keeps the notation easy to read.
In reply to You could increase the tempo… by yonah_ag
But impossible to play. No one would be able to figure out the exact tempo change needed to achieve that. The tuplet is actually much clearer, if still difficult to pull off in practice for most people.
In reply to But impossible to play. No… by Marc Sabatella
I'm sure that you are right.
I guess that the same mental gymnastics have to be performed either way in any attempt to play the notes correctly. Looks almost impossible to play to me but the 5 nested triplets looks clearest.
In reply to I guess that the same mental… by yonah_ag
The advantage of the tuplet notation is that the end goal is perfectly clear. You understand right from the beginning that the measure takes the same length as always, but you're going to cram five notes into it. So you just keep tapping your foot as always, play your five notes the best you can, and even if you're off by a little bit in some detail, you'll hit the downbeat of the next measure at exactly the eight time, guaranteed. With the tempo change version, you're likely to play all notes a little off, and you're virtually guaranteed to then be off in terms of when you play the next downbeat