Fine
I have a score with two repeated sections. The second part has two endings. In order for it to work the writer used a DC al Fine at the end of the second ending and put the Fine at the end of the first ending. It used to work on an older version of Musescore but it no longer works. It will repeat and then skip the Fine and end at the end of the second ending where the DC al Fine is. I've tried reworking it several ways, using DS al Fine and the appropriate Segno added, but it still does not work. I've included the DC and the DS versions for your perusal. Is there a way to make this work? Much appreciate your help.
Regards
Gerri
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Jasmine_Waltz.mscz | 37.57 KB |
| Jasmine Waltz 2.mscz | 35.76 KB |
Comments
Click on D.C., via Inspector tick "Play Repeats"
In reply to Click on D.C., via Inspector… by Shoichi
Checking.
In reply to Click on D.C., via Inspector… by Shoichi
I found the "play repeats" box and clicked on it. Still not working. It jumps the Fine and ends at the end of the second ending. :-(
In reply to Still not working. It jumps… by Gerri Hynes
Of course, the Fine is in the 1st repeat/volta. If you don't play repeats, it isn't seen, as then only the 2nd round is taken. If you do play repeats it isn't seen in the 2nd round either
In reply to Of course, the Fine is in… by Jojo-Schmitz
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I need it to play the first section twice, then the second part twice with the second ending the second time through. Then it's supposed to go back to the top and play everything once until it comes to the FINE. It's not doing that. It's skipping the first ending (second time around) and ending at the end of the second ending. This is not how it's supposed to work. It used to do it with Musescore 2 so I know it can do it. I just don't know why it's not doing it with M3 or now M3.6.
In reply to I don't think you're… by Gerri Hynes
MuseScore 2 surely could not do this, it didn't have the 'play repeats' for jumps at all, so played them only once (anf the 2nd volta) so would not have seen the Fine either
Hmm, actually it does work, as you've been told, check attached
In reply to MuseScore 2 surely could not… by Jojo-Schmitz
Yeah it did. Our group stayed with M2 for a long time after M3 came out. This piece is one of our oldest and it used to play just fine. Not any more.
In reply to Yeah it did. Our group… by Gerri Hynes
Ah, right, 2.3.2 does have "Play repeats" too. Not all 2.x had though
It does play in 3.x too though, the very same way
In reply to Ah, right, 2.3.2 does have … by Jojo-Schmitz
:-) Thanks. Yes, you are correct.
Please take me through your expected playback order; checking "play repeats" for the D.C. definitely makes playback stop at the Fine for me in 3.6.0.
The resulting playback order = A A B1 B2 A A B1
In reply to Please take me through your… by jeetee
It used to play AA, B1 B1 B2, A B1. Right now it's playing AA, B1 B2, A, B2 ending on B2. This is using the DC version. When I clicked on the "play repeats" using the DS version, I'm now getting the same as you. with AA being played the second time during the "fine" part. I can live with that but it's still a mystery why it's not following the usual "Fine" format. If that's the best it can do now, then we can make do with that I guess. It's definitely an improvement.
In reply to It used to play AA, B1 B1 B2… by Gerri Hynes
Just so I'm explaining myself clearly, when using a FINE with Da Capo's in an orchestral arrangement, the second time through, the repeats are not played. So the fact that Musescore is playing the A part twice during the second time is an error. This is not one of our orchestra pieces, obviously, so we can live with it, but it may present problems with orchestral set ups.
In reply to Just so I'm explaining… by Gerri Hynes
To be clear, not taking repeats is the default after a jump indeed (so then A is played only once). That A is played twice when you turn on "play repeats" is not a bug, but exactly what that option does; usually the jump text in the score is then changed to "D.C. al Fine con rep." to indicate so. That is not a bug.
What is also normal is that indeed after a Jump only the last repeat is played again. Your problem is that for your B-part, the last repeat is B2 and not B1; as such the "Fine" in B1 is unreachable after the jump.
Now knowing all that, there is a way to make your score work as you want it; by making sure that your first volta also is the last one and perceived as the "last repeat".
(1) Change the repeatlist for that volta to 1,3
(2) Change the play count of the end measure of that volta from "2" to "3"
In reply to To be clear, not taking… by jeetee
That is immensely helpful, thank you. Your version works perfectly. Much appreciated. I can see the 'repeat list' with the 1,3, but I'm not sure where to find the 'play count'? can you direct me to that setting please? Thanks! I'd like to know how to make these adjustments for next time.
In reply to That is immensely helpful,… by Gerri Hynes
It is found in the Measure Properties of the measure that ends with the corresponding end repeat symbol: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/measure-operations#properties
In reply to It is found in the Measure… by jeetee
Thank you so much! Got it.
In reply to To be clear, not taking… by jeetee
I can't see the "fix" in this discussion. I am writing a four part choral piece and am having the same problem. This payback does not stop at the FINE.
THANK YOU in advance for "dumbing down" the fix so a guy from Oklahoma can understand. :)
In reply to I can't see the "fix" in… by dawacs
That's a backup score, the penultimate version of your real score
In reply to I can't see the "fix" in… by dawacs
As mentioned by Jojo, note that you've attached a backup score, not the original/real score file itself.
You have two ways to fix your score:
Method 1: Remove the "D.S." at the end of the score. Add a "D.S. al Fine" from the Repeats&Jumps pallet instead.
As the name implies, that one is pre-configured to stop at the Fine marking, rather than the end of the score (as is the configuration of a plain D.S.).
Method 2: Click on the D.S. at the end of the score. In the Inspector (F8) change the value for the "Play until" field from "end" to "fine". The D.S. will now no longer attempt to play until the end of the score, but only up to the Fine marking.
And please update at least to 3.6.2 instead of staying on 3.2.3. (in which the attached score was last saved).
I have a similar but still different situation where a second end won't recognize my Fine because it happens to be in the first page of the piece.
My song play page 1, takes the first ending with no repeat bar, then moves to the next continuing strain of the piece and at the end of that, should come back to the start and take the second ending and the Fine.
If I use a DS al Fine or Da Capo al Fine, the program plays the first ending again and moves to the next strain again and never takes the second ending.
If I put a repeat sign at the end of the piece, it goes back to the beginning takes the second ending and move onto the next strain looping forever and ever.
How can I make musescore recognize the Fine in the second ending when it's in the middle of the song?
In reply to I have a similar but still… by carollers
A D.*. al * should alway and by default take the last repeat/volta only
If you want investigations why it doesn't in your score, share that score here
In reply to A D.*. al * should alway and… by Jojo-Schmitz
Here they are. I have tempo set super speed so you can play through it quickly. Makes it too long at 120 so I have it at 800.
First file is with a repeat at the end which I understand wouldn't recognize the Fine but does take the second ending.
The second file is with Da Capo al Fine. Musescore in this case doesn't register having played the first ending so it just repeats what it did before.
My fix for this was to put the three bars at the end of the song and creating a super long first ending with a repeat. That worked but it isn't at all what the sheet music shows. The first and second endings are on page one and at the end of the song there's a Da Capo al Fine. As human beings we see the Da Capo, go back to the beginning and having done the first ending once, we sing the second ending and stop there.
I'm sure this is doable because it's really not an unusual road map for a piece of music. Often we'll see, go to the next strain as the indicator in the first ending and then when we come back to the start we take the second ending.
In reply to Here they are. I have tempo… by carollers
oh and here's the original sheet music.
In reply to Here they are. I have tempo… by carollers
You have voltas but no repeats, voltas are altenative endings of repeats, nothing you could use elsewhere.
That PDF is just a wrong way of notating it, although real musicians might inderstand what it means.
In reply to You have voltas uit no… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks for this Jojo. I realized after trying it a few times that Musescore just didn't have the capability of reproducing this fairly common repeat structure. In this case, page one is not repeated after the first ending but only once you've gone through the piece. It's just not the road map of the song. As you have it, page one is repeated 3 times. Once after the first ending and then again at the Da Capo.
In published versions the marking "To next strain" would have been included in the first ending with no repeat. That would indicate to real musicians to move onto the next section. The Da Capo al Fine would then instruct them to return to the beginning and take the second ending. Doesn't seem like Musescore has the sophistication required to reproduce this road map unfortunately.
Your help is much appreciated.
In reply to Thanks for this Jojo. I… by carollers
There you go. I've also added the normal repeat for verses 3 & 4.
"Tricks" used because as you're now well aware volta's only apply to normal repeats, which is why they didn't work for your intended purpose.
In traditional writing, there wouldn't be a 2nd volta, but what is under it would become a Coda, placed at the end of the score. At that point, the jump at the end of verse 4 becomes a D.C. al Coda and the start where volta 1 used to be would become a 'To coda' instruction.
Now I do understand why in this instance (and usually in vocal music) there are deviations and markings not unlike voltas to make the roadmap clear to the player/singer that don't conform with the classical rules of notation.
Time to (ab)use that logic to make your playback work as you want:
Add a text indication to the end of volta 1 to indicate the "go to verse 2" instruction. I've opted for a system text line, by setting it's end text and marking the line itself invisible to guarantee the end-of-measure right alignment of the text.
As playback will skip that 2nd volta (due to no normal repeats), the default behavior here is exactly what is desired already.
Use a "D.C. al Coda" as the jump at the end of verse 4, double click it to change the text to read what you want/need. Place the "To Coda" on the measure just before the voltas and mark it invisible. Place the Coda at the start of the 2nd volta and mark it invisible as well.
This will force MuseScore to jump "into" that volta, even though it normally would skip it. But due to the coda being inside it MuseScore assumes that this is what you want and oblige.
The downside now is that the "Fine" will no longer be respected, because jump logic parsing restarts when entering a coda.. Luckily, because your ending consists of more than 1 measure, we can remedy that:
Instead of playing from the first to the 2nd measure normally, MuseScore will now "jump" from the end of the first measure to the start of the 2nd. But because it did, it can now honor the "al Fine" part of that jump instruction and as such will stop at the Fine.
In reply to There you go. I've also… by jeetee
Wow. You're a star. Thanks for this.