C Clef - How to use it correctly
Hi all. I am trying to code a score with the Tenor (C Clef) and Base Clefs. When I drag it to replace the Treble Clef, the Key Signature changes and the notes I type are in the wrong place in the staff. When I try shifting the Y Axis, it doesn't correct the Key Signature or notes. Is there a good tutorial on how to use the C Clef in MuseScore?
Comments
The key signature & notes should remain the same but of course they will be on a different position on the staff. Post images of before and after of what your seeing.
In reply to The key signature & notes… by rothers
You will see that this C Clef key signature does not appear as it would if it were a treble clef. It is a step lower. Does this help?
In reply to You will see that this C… by eldondhancock
That key signature is telling me you've placed an Alto clef but have you then tried to manually move the clef up a bit?
In reply to That key signature is… by rothers
Isn't my Clef a Tenor Clef? In reading about both Clefs, they appear to be the same thing. In any case, both Clefs place middle C in the middle of the Clef and shift the key signature down a step. I use the Inspector (Y axis) to adjust the position of middle C to be as it does on the Treble Clef, but I cannot get that adjustment to shift the key signature back up a step. I cannot find anything about this in the handbook, but it seems like something Musescore probably handles, and I just cannot figure out how. Thanks for looking at this. I appreciate all who are trying to help.
In reply to The key signature & notes… by rothers
This is how I want the key signature to appear, but with the notes played an octave lower while written where treble clef notes would appear.
Also, to be clear, I want my notes to appear as they would on a Treble Clef and play an octave lower for tenor parts. The key signature should show as it would on a Treble Clef. Does this make sense?
In reply to Also, to be clear, I want my… by eldondhancock
You could use the treble clef with the 8 below it.
In reply to You could use the treble… by bobjp
Thanks. I could do that but I am trying to mimic how many men's scores are written where the upper clef of the staff for tenors is written to appear as a Treble Clef with notes played and sung an octave lower. It's very common but I do not see how to replicate it in Musescore.
In reply to Thanks. I could do that but… by eldondhancock
That is exactly what that clef does. It means an octave below what is written. Try it. If you set up a score with tenor voice, that's the clef that should be loaded.
In reply to That is exactly what that… by bobjp
In my attachments, you can see that it is not working. The Tenor (C Clef) key signature is lowered a step. I want the Tenor Clef key signature to appear exactly as it would be on a Treble Clef, not a step lower.
In reply to In my attachments, you can… by eldondhancock
I don't think what MuseScore calls "Tenor clef" is for voice. More for tenor instruments.
I'm talking about this:
![tenor.png]( "tenor.png")
In reply to I don't think what MuseScore… by bobjp
I think your Tenor above is going to work. It plays the correct notes and gives the correct key signature. I am going to use that. I've seen the one in my capture 3 used for 50 years since High School in dozens of scores, but I am surprised it is not supported in Musescore 3. Your Tenor alternative is great. Thanks.
In reply to In my attachments, you can… by eldondhancock
In your (@eldondhancock) picture you have a G clef (a.k.a. treble clef) on the upper staff and an F clef (a.k.a. bass clef) on the lower staff. Not a C clef in sight!
In reply to In your picture you have a G… by SteveBlower
All the tutorials I see refer to this as a C Clef, but it is important to position the center of the object over where you want middle C. The C Clef positions middle C on the line in the middle of the Clef, and the only way I can see in Musescore to position it to match the Treble Clef is using the Y axis in Inspector. But I cannot get that to adjust the key signature accordingly. See this attachment. It shows an example of what I am trying to replicate. Thanks!
In reply to All the tutorials I see… by eldondhancock
That is not what you showed here https://musescore.org/en/node/360114#comment-1227313
I am confused about what it is that you do want
In reply to That is not what you showed… by SteveBlower
See my attachment Capture 3. I am trying to replicate that in MuseScore 3. I am getting the impression that MuseScore 3 does not have the specific Tenor Clef (C Clef with middle C on the second space from the top) that I am looking for. I have not advanced to MuseScore 4. Can someone tell me if it is therein or if there is a way to create it or import it to Musescore 3?
Please post a picture of the original score that you are trying to recreate. The "C-clef" in your image is usually applied to a line, not a space. There is a "C-clef" that might do the job for you in terms of not moving the notes about but you might still need to transpose the stave by an octave (I can't tell for sure from your posts).
![Screenshot_20230429_164333.png]( "Screenshot_20230429_164333.png")
In reply to Please post a picture of the… by underquark
Thanks. See Capture 3 above. I appreciate your help and all others here.
In reply to Thanks. See Capture 3 above… by eldondhancock
Here is what Wikipedia has to say (my emphasis):
![Clefs_Wikipedia.png]( "Clefs_Wikipedia.png")
"The C-clef is mostly encountered as alto clef (placing middle C on the third line) or tenor clef (middle C on the fourth line). A clef may be placed on a space instead of a line, but this is rare."
And the possible tenor C-clefs in the MuseScore palette (Tenor clef , Tenor clef 8va bassa and Tenor clef (French, 20th century) ) are fixed on the fourth line - like the Wikipedia illustration shown above. In your musical example the Tenor clef is fixed in the space between the third and fourth line of the stave, so I don't think that the clef can be reproduced in MuseScore.
[EDIT]
![Tenor_vocal_clef_8va_bassa.png]( "Tenor_vocal_clef_8va_bassa.png")
And FWIW I agree with @bobjp that the sensible course is to notate a tenor voice like this:
In reply to Here is what Wikipedia has… by DanielR
Agreed. I am using that. Thanks!
In reply to Please post a picture of the… by underquark
Your Tenor 1 is going to work perfectly. Thanks!
Since the treble clef 8va bassa works for both correct notation and correct playback, you can make it invisible and overlay it with the C clef from the Symbols palette (to replicate your Capture 3).
![C clef symbol.png]( "C clef symbol.png")
In MuseScore 3, press Z to view the Symbols palette:
In your score using the treble clef 8va bassa, right click on one then Select > All Similar Elements in Same Staff then press V to make invisible. (You can use menu item: View > untick 'Show Invisible' so the greyed-out clefs won't show. Helps with seeing the C clef when overlayed.)
![invisible treble.png]( "invisible treble.png")
![finish.png]( "finish.png")
Place a C clef "symbol" overlaying the invisible clef:
The C clef "symbol" can be saved to a palette any future work, if desired.
The alternative Tenor Clef suggested worked perfectly!!! Thanks to everyone.