Why is concert pitch on by default?

• Nov 28, 2018 - 03:10

I almost just posted a bug, having started a new score in the nightly and noticed the incorrect ottava clef for Contrabassi. I don't think I've ever seen a score published in concert pitch, so it immediately threw me off. It's a really good tool to use when you're writing, but I think having it on by default is going to lead to more people than just me knee-jerk assuming the score is bugged. Scores should look as expected at first glance, then people can turn on the option or not themselves...


Comments

Concert pitch is off by default in the nightly I downloaded about 2 days ago. I wonder why you get a different result than I do.

I used the default Concert Orchestra and also chose my instruments and concert pitch was turned off for both.

In reply to by mike320

ah, and I forgot to post which nightly, of course. MuseScoreNightly-2018-11-27-1742-master-2ad0757

And I looked at Concert Orchestra, you're right, the pitch is default off there. It's on for the classical orchestra.

I actually couldn't see the difference from the 'choose template' page, as all it displays is a thumbnail title page for both.

So two things, then - templates need to show two pages if there is a title page, and concert pitch really shouldn't default to on for the classical orchestra. It is not obvious via language what the difference between a concert or a classical orchestra is. The concert orchestra really ought to be renamed either 'Symphony Orchestra', 'Full Symphony Orchestra', or 'Romantic Orchestra'. That last one is a little iffy, but anyone who knows music history would immediately understand it had trombones and more percussion than timpani.

As it is, it is really confusing. And it's close to the first thing a new person would encounter in MS3. Or even a veteran.

In reply to by Laurelin

I think all of the orchestral templates should default to concert pitch off. I guess I never really noticed the difference before.

I do remember having to turn concert pitch off, and it took me a while to realize what the button looked like when it was on and off. I always looked at the key signatures to determine if concert pitch is on. When I had an atonal piece I would add a key signature to a transposing instrument and undo it after I figured out if I needed to click the Concert Pitch button. I finally figured it out.

In reply to by mike320

You wrote:
...it took me a while to realize what the button looked like when it was on and off. I always looked at the key signatures to determine if concert pitch is on.

The tool tips should help, but don't:

Tooltips.png

The image above is from MuseScore 2.3.2:
Current tool tip text is shown on the left. On the right is displayed a more meaningful tool tip text.
The development builds have a slightly different color scheme, but show the same (wrong) text.

Regards.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

You wrote:
Thet toolTip just shows what that button would do, if pressed.

That's what I thought.
So, as the image above shows, the tool tip shows 'Display in concert pitch' even if already in concert pitch.
So how does that show what the button would do if pressed?
If already in concert pitch, the tooltip should say 'Turn off concert pitch' - i.e. what that button would do, if pressed.

Scenarios:
1. Concert pitch is off - tool tip says 'Display in concert pitch' (what the button would do, if pressed) - press the button - the result is that concert pitch displays. Expected result.

  1. Concert pitch is on - tooltip says 'Display in concert pitch' (again, what the button would do if pressed) - but the display is already in concert pitch, so the tool tip is untruthful.

Well, the turn on/off is pretty obvious
In the development build, choose the 'Dark' theme and toggle the Concert pitch button on/off.
The faint outline is not pretty obvious; and the tooltip, which should show what that button would do, if pressed, is misleading.

Regards.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Of course on an unpressed botton it does not do what the tooltip say it would do when pressed.

Unless, the button shows this (truthful) tip:
Tooltips Windows.png
Above, it doesn't matter what state the button is currently in.

Thus, in MuseScore it should be labelled more precisely: "Toggle concert pitch".
(Since it applies to both states - 'concert pitch on'; and 'concert pitch off'.)
Regards.

In reply to by mike320

For the concert pitch button, changing the tool tip to explain what pressing the button would do, was needed since a long time ago. (The other toolbar buttons are not so prone to on/off misinterpretation.)

Anyway, here's the behavior...
In MuseScore 2.3.2:
Dark theme - Concert Pitch on - displays a darker color (unlike the other toolbar buttons - turn blue)
Light theme - Concert Pitch on - displays a lighter color (same as the other toolbar buttons)

In MuseScore 3.0.0:
Dark theme - Concert Pitch on - difficult to discern, although the button shows an outline,
Light theme - Concert Pitch on - displays a darker color (same as the other toolbar buttons)

So you can see that 2.3.2 light theme displays light button presses, and 3.0.0 light theme displays dark button presses. As long as it's consistent, it doesn't matter that it changed from 2.3.2 to 3.0.0.
Using the dark theme, the Concert pitch button is the one that's inconsistent with the other buttons.

Now...
With MuseScore 3 in the pipeline, here's how the concert button should display:
Toolbar color fix.PNG
Since the other toolbar buttons turn blue when activated, the Concert pitch button should follow suit.

Regards.

In reply to by mike320

Earlier you wrote::
...it took me a while to realize what the button looked like when it was on and off. I always looked at the key signatures to determine if concert pitch is on.

Well... check this out:
Tooltips MuseScore 3.png
Reminds me of
ON OFF.png
That's why a tooltip associated with the current condition of the button would be most helpful.

I do understand that the button is activated when it's color changes (from the background color).
However, in MuseScore 3, the concert pitch button does not turn the same color as the other buttons (blue) when the dark theme is selected.

Returning to the original question:

Whether one wants concert pitch on or off by default probably depends in large part on whether one is copying existing scores (which are virtually always transposed, so you want it off) or composing new ones (which virtually everyone prefers to do at concert pitch, so you want it on).

That said, concert pitch is off by default when first starting MuseScore. It is off by default when creating a new score "from scratch" (using "Choose Instruments" in the Create New Score wizard). If you choose a template, then however that particuar template was saved will determined the default. Looks like some of the default templates have it on, others have it off, and that's not good. I see an issue has been filed, so hopefully that is addressed for the next update But meanwhile, I thought it useful to explain how this works.

Since a tempalte is a plain text MSCX file, if you have admin privilege on your computer, you should be able to edit the file actualy incldued with MueScore, but I don't recommend it. Instead, if you want a workaround for now, just toggle the option then save it to your own Templates folder and use that.

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