Support: Is it possible to use Plucked Acoustic Bass Instrument in conjuction with Real Time Automatic Recording?
Hello,
I can successfully create Piano "sounding" scores from my MiDi 25 key M-Audio Oxygen8 V2 utilizing the Real Time Automatic, it works. It's magic. It also works with my sustain pedal. I'm a very amateur/novice acoustic Stand-Up Bass player and wish to assist my learning by creating simple scores to improve my understanding of music notation and share Bass scores with my chum who's a very good piano player. However, once I select the Bass Acoustic Plucked Instrument and I hit a MiDi keyboard all hell breaks loose! I get trips, quads and red notation and a range of links. I didn't expect that to happen, especially after success with the Piano Intrument setting.
So, is it possible to use Real Time Automatic with Plucked Acoustic Bass? Or should I be setting up in Musescore a different way of hearing the acoustic bass being plucked. I've tried electric bass too and swapped to using my QWERTY too, with same result.
Please advise,
GS
Comments
You wrote:
However, once I select the Bass Acoustic Plucked Instrument and I hit a MiDi keyboard all hell breaks loose!
From where are you selecting the Bass Acoustic Plucked Instrument?
Are you creating a new score (or adding a new staff to a score) and selecting the instrument from the Choose Instruments window?
Are you selecting the instrument sound (acoustic bass) from the MIDI Oxygen8 and entering notes on what's actually a 'piano' staff?
Be advised that notation for acoustic bass is transposed at the octave. That is, the acoustic bass instrument sounds an octave lower than written (electric bass too).
Since your MIDI Oxygen8 has only 25 keys, there should be a way to change what octaves it covers while entering pitches so that you can notate the correct octave.
Since you say you can create piano scores successfully, try this:
In MuseScore, notate each open string of the acoustic bass onto a piano bass clef staff.
Then right click on an empty part of a measure, then click Staff/Part Properties...
Click on 'Change Instrument' and change from piano to Acoustic Bass.
If the open strings are notated in the wrong octave you can select all notes and then press Ctrl + ↑ or ↓ arrow to fix.
Use this method to figure out in which octave to play your Oxygen8 to obtain the correct notation on the acoustic bass staff.
See:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/staff-part-properties#change-instru…
In reply to You wrote: However, once I… by Jm6stringer
"From where are you selecting the Bass Acoustic Plucked Instrument?"
Here:
"Are you creating a new score (or adding a new staff to a score) and selecting the instrument from the Choose Instruments window?"
New Score and choose Instruments window.
"Are you selecting the instrument sound (acoustic bass) from the MIDI Oxygen8 and entering notes on what's actually a 'piano' staff?"
I don't even know how I would select an instrument sound (acoustic bass) from the MIDI Oxygen8? When I press a G I hear the correct G coming from the PC speakers. The MiDi is sending the correct insructions and I hear G. And no, I'm using the Bass Staff.
"Be advised that notation for acoustic bass is transposed at the octave. That is, the acoustic bass instrument sounds an octave lower than written (electric bass too)."
I understand that the transpose octave. However I hear the correct G in its correct octave for an Acoustic Bass being plucked. And yes, I can move up and down an octave on the MiDi.
After following your instructions and starting a Live Auto session I get this, again:
![Transposed and then again.png]( "Transposed and then again.png")
Please advise,
Regards
Graham
In reply to "From where are you… by GrazieScore
It looks-like the Sustain-pedal was depressed.
Or the "note-off message" was somehow not accepted.
In reply to It looks-like the Sustain… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hi Ziya!
"It looks-like the Sustain-pedal was depressed." - Yes it does and no I didn't use the Pedal, purely using my fingers on the MiDi keyboard.
"Or the "note-off message" was somehow not accepted." - Again, yes I'd agree with you BUT this only happens when I choose that Plucked Acoustic Bass. Using the standard Piano works successfully.
What we need is somebody to duplicate my opration and either confirm or deny what I'm getting.
In reply to Hi Ziya! "It looks-like the… by GrazieScore
What we need is somebody to duplicate my opration and either confirm or deny what I'm getting
You are correct, but with the relative few people here trying to help, if no one has the same MIDI keyboard then advice from people like Ziya are your best bet to trouble shoot and find a solution.
In reply to What we need is somebody to… by mike320
Mike320, yes I totally agree. And I thank those having given me their free time in responding. I’m not ungrateful. As to the confirm or deny, at this point I’d like anybody with a MiDi to attempt to Live Auto using a Plucked Acoustic Bass. If they don’t get that mess of notes, I’ll be most gratefully wishing to copy them.
In reply to Mike320, yes I totally agree… by GrazieScore
If it's only the acoustic bass for some reason then use the double base or contrabassoon that has the same transposition then change the instrument after the notes are entered.
In reply to If it's only the acoustic… by mike320
Mike320? Where do I find/locate the Double Bass?
In reply to Mike320? Where do I find… by GrazieScore
In the instruments dialog there is a search box below the list of instruments you can add, type double in that box and you will see Double Bass.
This may tell us there is a problem with the Acoustic Bass definition or interpretation in MuseScore.
In reply to In the instruments dialog… by mike320
Stage One on the word "double":
Stage Two need to select "Bowed":
And the results is:
![double search select Bowed result - Copy.png]( "double search select Bowed result - Copy.png")
As it was before.
In reply to Stage One on the word … by GrazieScore
I suspect the definition of Double Bass and Acoustic bass are identical except the name. They are different name for the same instrument. Try the Contrabassoon for entering the notes since entering notes works for other instruments.
In reply to I suspect the definition of… by mike320
They are identical except for their channels, arco and pizzicato, those are the other way round in one vs the other, so arco by default for double bass, pizzicato for acoustic bass
In reply to They are identical except… by Jojo-Schmitz
That makes sense Jojo.
In reply to They are identical except… by Jojo-Schmitz
Hi Jojo - So what should I do?
In reply to Hi Jojo - So what should I… by GrazieScore
no idea
In reply to Hi Jojo - So what should I… by GrazieScore
I have a theory. Let's see if it's true.
Can you do an Real-Time-Automatic-Recording test on the file I attached?
Is there any difference?
In reply to I have a theory. Let's see… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hi Ziya.
No change. Is this what you expected?
In reply to Hi Ziya. [inline:2019-07-31… by GrazieScore
In the bass, same patch number was defined twice,
I wonder if it could be the problem here.
And I reduced it to one. But it didn't work. :(
If it worked, the solution would be very simple. :)
In reply to In the bass patch, pizzicato… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hmm, that is a mistake then. Probably mine...
See https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/5249
Won't help here apparently, but should still get fixed
In reply to Hmm, that is a mistake then by Jojo-Schmitz
Whose “mistake”?
In reply to Whose “mistake”? by GrazieScore
I think I was the last person to fiddle with that part of the code (adding 'slap' andf 'pop' channels), so my mistake to have screwed it up :-)
In reply to I think I was the last… by Jojo-Schmitz
No worries Jojo. Where do we go now?
In reply to No worries Jojo. Where do we… by GrazieScore
Still no idea...
In reply to Still no idea... by Jojo-Schmitz
Jojo, are you one of the Musescore developers?
In reply to Jojo, are you one of the… by GrazieScore
A contributor.
In reply to A contributor. by Jojo-Schmitz
Ah, righto. So, it’d still be good to have someone confirm or deny a MiDi Keyboard can do live Record using a plucked Bass.
In reply to Hmm, that is a mistake then by Jojo-Schmitz
PR just got merged. Won't help in this case, but at least now the instrument defintion is correct
In reply to PR just got merged by Jojo-Schmitz
Aim at one, shoot the other. :D
In reply to Aim at one, shoot the other… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hi guys! OK, no success and so far we’ve not heard from anybody using Plucked Acoustic Bass and Auto to record Notation. I’m starting to think that there aren’t any Instruments that will do this from a MiDi Keyboard.
In reply to Hi guys! OK, no success and… by GrazieScore
Most people don't have a problem with this. There is something strange going on with your keyboard. You said instruments beside the acoustic bass worked. I suggested you try a contrabassoon to see if that works, if not use one that does work and change the instruments once the notes are entered.
In reply to Most people don't have a… by mike320
Hi Mike, thanks for the advice. If these are the same people that are using Acoustic Bass with Auto Notation record from a MiDi, it’d be great to communicate with them so I can nail just exactly what I’m doing wrong. It’s not just my MiDi Keyboard, I get the same issue from my QWERTY keyboard too. Contra didn’t work. And yes, I’ve carried through your idea of using, for me, PIANO ‘cos that works, and then converting to Acoustic Bass. It’s a painful process.
Kudos to the MuseScore Developers. This software is truly amazing, and I’m astounded at just what it can achieve for me. Having User Friendly software is a bit of a passion for me. I’ve BETA tested a bunch of NLEs, VFx and Graphics software for companies over a period of 15+ years. I’m quite content to “move on” and get results results. I do hope the developers of MuseScore can jump in here and see what can be done.
Once again, thanks for all your input.
In reply to Hi Mike, thanks for the… by GrazieScore
I get the same issue from my QWERTY keyboard too
Do you mean that if you use the default step time note entry you get the same long tied notes as you do with your midi keyboard? If so, it sounds like your 9 (or maybe 8 or +) button is stuck. This sounds strange to me, but I don't know what else you've done on your computer since you ran into the issue.
In reply to I get the same issue from my… by mike320
"Do you mean that if you use the default step time note entry you get the same long tied notes as you do with your midi keyboard?" No. Step Time is fine on both QWERT and MiDi. All my focus is and has been on using the Real-Time (Automatic) RTA. It's RTA that's giving me grief.
In reply to "Do you mean that if you use… by GrazieScore
Can you add an "mscz" file that contains this stack of notes that you created?
In reply to Can you add an "mscz" file… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hi Ziya - see my latest. I'm humbled . . .
In reply to "Do you mean that if you use… by GrazieScore
Hah! Success. . . .so far . . .
My mistake was to introduce the Instrument at the point of making the Score. Wrong. Knowing I could get PIANO into the Score - RTA - I then expermented changing the Instrument at the Stave Properties and NOT AT THE origination of the score - Create New Score. It was the option to choose an instrument at chart creation level that I kept stumbling over, again and again and again . . .
![Only Choose Instrument at Stave Properties.png]( "Only Choose Instrument at Stave Properties.png")
So:
1] Create a Score - DO NOT CHOOSE Instrument (lol . . ) from the options. Leave as Piano.
2] At the new Score start using Piano and then Transpose to, for me that's an Acoustic Bass.
3] Carry on using via RTA.
Result is my MiDi makes the correct sound. MiDi sends correct signals to MuseScore and all in RTA!
Thanks for all your support.