Grace note beaming, invisible stems, line through note
Hi there,
Thanks for whoever has time to help.
A few issues with grace notes I need help with.
1. I need to be able to break the beaming for grace notes, but when I use beaming function it doesn't behave as it does with normal notes (e.g. selecting beam properties, no beam). Is there a way around this?
2. I need this for sections where the stems are invisible. The stems of notes don't go invisible till there is no beaming. Question 1 would allow me to make all grace notes invisible. Alternatively I could keep all of the grace notes showing their stems (including the ones that aren't beamed) where the rest of the normal notes are un-stemed.
3. For the entire piece I have used acciacatura. For some reason when I input more than one acciacatura there is no longer a line throught the acciacatura. Is there a way to get round this? Do I need to go through and draw the lines in using the symbols manually?
Thanks again to the folk that made MuseScore and answer questions.
Stu
Comments
I've been filing issues about grace notes recently, also trying to find out a little bit about them.
1. I wondered about this too (link - didn't see your topic), but now that I've seen someone else ask, could you show an example of a broken beam in grace notes?
3. I had filed an issue, but just amended it to make it a little clearer: #11779: Stroke of multiple acciaccatura immobile and incorrect in appearance
Thanks!
In reply to I've been filing issues about by chen lung
Hi Chen Lung,
I just had another play with acciacatura in 1.1
I appreciate you reporting the issue with the stroke.
I'm not longer having the issue where the stroke totally disappears. If I have this happen again I'll post the process.
The only problem I still have is that at present you can't edit beam properties for acciaccatura. When I click on the different functions in the 'beam properties' menu nothing happens. I suppose I should post something in a feature request for this?
Just open up Musescore. Input any note. Put two or more acciaccatura in and try to adjust the beaming.
Regards,
stu
In reply to acciacatura by Stu_
I just tried 1.1 - it's still happening: #11778: Stroke on multiple acciaccatura doesn't appear after save
The reason I asked about an example for broken grace note beaming was to confirm it's within the rules. I've drawn something up, but want to be sure before posting :).
In reply to I just tried 1.1 - it's still by chen lung
hi chen lung,
Yeah, just saved, and same thing. No line through acciaccatura any more. That's good to know. I'll have to draw lines in by hand.
Do you still need me to send an example -- like screen shots or something to show what I mean regarding grace note beaming (i.e. that you can't adjust it in the way you can other notes).
Thanks for following this up.
Esp getting the immobile thing fixed will help a lot.
Ta,
Stu
In reply to acciaccatura... by Stu_
Hi Stu
Yes, I'd appreciate if you could upload examples of grace note beaming contrary to what MuseScore does now.
I know you can't adjust at least 'beam start', 'beam middle' or 'no beam' on grace notes.
Thanks
Scott
In reply to Hi Stu Yes, I'd appreciate if by chen lung
1. Open MuseScore
2. Open New Score
3. Setup with any instrument (e.g. Voice)
4. Enter any note (e.g. C above middle C)
5. On the pallet select 'Grace notes'
6. Select any of the grace notes - (e.g. acciacatura)
7. Enter 2 or more grace notes (either double click on the grace note, or drag it to the normal note)
8. Click on beam properties
9. Attempt to adjust any of the beam properties as you would with a normal note
10. Nothing happens - the beam properties of the grace notes are unaffected.
In reply to acciaccatura beaming by Stu_
Stu,
I know the problem :), but I'm trying to prove that people actually need to adjust beam properties.
Can you provide an example from a published score with altered beams of grace notes?
In reply to Stu, I know the problem :), by chen lung
It came up as an issue for me when I was working in free time with stemless notes. You need to remove the beaming to remove the stem. You can't do this with grace notes as discussed. This was my frustration.
I am unaware of a published score with variable beaming for grace notes. So I guess if this is just my problem, I'm happy to continue working with symbols.
Just had a thought. Brian Ferneyhough. Basically every thing he's done. I've attached 'Cassandra's Dream Song'
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I imagine in the vast body of contemporary music there are other examples.
Cheers,
Stu
In reply to ah, sorry by Stu_
Could you check the link again?
In reply to Could you check the link by chen lung
the link
In reply to the link by [DELETED] 5
I can barely work out what's going on in that score (can't find the grace note) :D! I'm now going to ask others how this should be handled?
Apparently one of the most complicated pieces ever written (?) - if it can't be created currently in the software, would it serve as a good test case to MuseScore developers (not publicly for legal reasons, but privately)?
Perhaps users could propose scores that cannot be currently made in MuseScore, but would serve as good test cases?
In reply to I can barely work out what's by chen lung
There's plenty of similar examples of "experimental" types of notation out there, and indeed, MuseScore is likely to fall woefully short. Finale really tries hard to allow many of these constructs, and more power to them, I say. But frankly, if I were writing music like that, my starting place would be a drawing app, maybe pasting in snippets of standard notation created in MuseScore, I suspect it would be a constantly uphill battle trying to track all the different sorts of things people have invented to notate music with.
In reply to I can barely work out what's by chen lung
Two interesting articles on this topic :
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/scoring-outside-the-lin…
http://www.dennisdesantis.com/2011/03/01/notation-a-manifesto
In reply to Two interesting articles on by [DELETED] 5
Thanks for the links.
"If there is a simpler way to notate a given idea, then that is the correct way. There are no exceptions."
He may mean don't be complicated just for the sake of it? There might be exceptions.
Anyway, what should we do Lasconic?
In reply to Thanks for the links. "If by chen lung
On reflection posting that picture of Ferneyhough's piece was probably unhelpful.
MuseScore is a fantastic program, and I don't think the wonderful people who give their time programming should spend time on bizarre things that are only utilised by a select few.
It would seem that my original request for adjustable beaming in grace notes is not a common one, so I am happy to continue achieving what I want with the use of symbols.
My thanks once more to the people programming MuseScore, and those responding to forum requests.
Regards,
Stu