Stem disappears when adding high hat part
Hi,
I'm trying to have a "double stop" with the high hat and snare drum parts. When I add the high hat to the snare drum, the stem disappears and the notes condense.
Example attached.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Mike
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| High Hat Test.mscz | 1.95 KB |
Comments
That's because you are trying to notate it all in one voice.
The snare should be in voice 1 and the parts operated by the feet - Bass drum and pedal hihat in voice 2.
In reply to That's because you are trying by ChurchOrganist
Seems that still shouldn't have the effect we are seeing - we should just see the hi hat with stems down, not with no stem at all. But it's hard to say withiut knowing exactly how the score was created and how the notes weres were added.
In any event, it is true that if you wish to adopt a convention in which hi hat can be notated on the same stem as snare, you will probably need to customize the drumset to put them both in the same voice.
In reply to Seems that still shouldn't by Marc Sabatella
If you use a second voice, the stem does go down, which as you know is not what I'm going for, but then there are unwanted rests as well.
To answer your question (which is a good one) I tried inputting the snare then b.d. then h.h. I also tried inputting the h.h. first then s.d. then b.d. and the same thing happened so I'm pretty confused.
Can you tell me more about customizing the drum set?
Thanks,
Mike
In reply to Disappearing stem by shapsticks
I believe Michael has a tutorial video on the subject of drumset customization, but I don't recall the URL - a search of this site would probably find it, though. It,s not that complicated, though. Just right click staff, select edit drum set, find the hi hat, and change it to voice 1.
In reply to I believe Michael has a by Marc Sabatella
The URL is http://www.organspider.me.uk/MuseSc oreTut.html
Or you can reach it through my YouTube channel if you prefer: http://www.youtube.com/user/FatherWillisOrganist?feature=mhee
There is a transcript of the Narration on the website.
In reply to I believe Michael has a by Marc Sabatella
I had been doing that manually by clicking on voice one when inputting the h.h. I tried your suggestion and the same thing happened. I'm wondering if it's a bug in that note (h.h. with pedal)? A similar thing happens when I try to put a ride cymbal, snare, bass drum and hi hat on one stem. I baffled.... I had forgotten about the edit drum set function, thanks for reminding me!
Mike
In reply to Disappearing stem by shapsticks
I can get sthe stemless note to appear in the same measure, but not if I start from scratch in a new measure. Can you? If so, can you, step by step, starting with "click an empty measure than N for note entry" and saying exactly what notes you are entering and in what order and how? Again, it seems there must be something unusual about how you are doing things, because I have never seen this before and cannot reproduce it.
In reply to I can get sthe stemless note by Marc Sabatella
It happened to me when I tried to input everything in voice 1 using quavers
Steps are:-
1. Create new 5 line percussion score
2. Enter a bare of snare in quavers
3. Enter bass drum on beats 1 and 3 in quavers making sure you override the voice selection by clicking voice 1 before entry
4. Enter pedal hihat notes in quavers on the last quaver of each minim group, again overriding the voice selection to voice 1
The stem is missing on the pedal hihat notes when you do that.
In reply to It happened to me when I by ChurchOrganist
Hmm. I had no idea you could override the voice assignment of a given drum by simply clicking the appropriate voice icon. That's not documented as doing anything in the Handbook entry on drum notation, but it does indeed work at least sometimes. Just not in this case. I wonder if it really is supposed to work, or if it is just an accident that it worked at all? I virtually never use the click method of entering drum parts; I have a custom drum set with keyboard shortcut assignments, and as far as I know, there is no way to override voice assignment when entering drum notes by keyboard shortcut. Not that I'd ever want to; my custmized drum set has each drum in the vocie I'd want it in anyhow. But it kind of surprises me that drum note entry by clicking would actually behave differently than drum note entry by keyboard in this respect, which is what makes me wonder if that voice override was even supposed to work.
In reply to Hmm. I had no idea you could by Marc Sabatella
So, on further experimentation, I see that changing voice after selecting a drum from the palette *does* normally work, and indeed, it *is* working here. The hi hat is being entered into the selected voice; it just isn't displaying with a stem. And it turns out this has nothing to do with voices. The same bug is seen if you try adding "low conga" from the default drum set, which defaults to voice 1 and thus doesn't need you to change voices when adding one to an existing note. It appears at first that any drum with an "x" head will display stemless when added to an existing drum, but even that is not the full story, because editing the drum set to change the note head to normal doesn't fix it.
Anyone else want to play with this further to isolate the nature of the bug in order to report it correctly? I don't use this feature enough to be confident about it.
In reply to I can get sthe stemless note by Marc Sabatella
I can not get them to appear in the measure you did, please let me know how you did it.
Here's what I do after clicking N for note entry:
Click on snare and enter 8 eighth notes.
Click on bass drum, then click on voice one and add bass drum on 1 & 3
Click on h.h. with pedal, then click on voice one and add h.h. with pedal on 2& 4.
In reply to That's because you are trying by ChurchOrganist
Thanks for your response, but the stem needs to go up, like the bass drum. The drum notation I need to use has all the drums as one part, as opposed to having stems going up and down.
Thanks again for your response,
-Mike
In reply to Stem disappears when adding high hat part by shapsticks
Yes, so as I said, if you wish to use that type of non-standard notation (most drum set music uses multiple voices with opposing stems specifically to allow notation of more complex rhythms), you will need to customize your drum set to allow this. If you right click the staff, you'll see "edit drum set" as one of the options, and then you can change the hi hat and any other drums you need to all be in voice 1.
Another possibility is to enter the mote as some other sound then just arrow it up or down until you reach the hi hat. Might be easier than editing the drum if you're just doing a few measures and never intend to do this again. But it"s more work than editing the drum set in the long run
In reply to Yes, so as I said, if you by Marc Sabatella
Thanks, but in terms of drum notation, many performer/educators are using the one voice method of notation. It's easier to read when on a gig and easier to teach with. Pretty much all of the newer books are using this method including my own. As an example, David Garibaldi's book "Future Sounds" is done with one voice and that book was written over 20 years ago (not so new any more). I've tried arrowing down and that doesn't work for me. I've also tried doing it by customizing the kit in the edit drum set function as you suggested and that doesn't work either. I believe this is a bug and will report it. I have reported another thing that seemed like a bug with the drum notation and it hasn't been fixed. I totally get it, there are major problems with Logic etc. in this area as well. My guess is not enough drummers are using home computers to write notation as to make it worth their while to fix .
Thanks so much for trying!
Mike
In reply to Thanks, but in terms of drum by shapsticks
Did you see my post from a couple of hours before your above? http://musescore.org/en/node/16327#comment-57783? I've narrowed down some things about the bug, and basically reached the same conclusion as you - there doesn't seem to be a workaround, and it is doesn't seem to have anything to do with voices in particular. So, definitely worth submitting.
BTW, as for the other bug you say you submitted, I just did a quick check of the issue tracker and don't see anything submitted by you. Just something about grace notes and lyrics that you commented on, and that one is marked as already fixed. Do you have a link to the issue you reported? I do see a forum post from a year and a half ago that seems to be basically reporting this same issue with missing stems, but no associated issue in the tracker, which probably has something to do with why it hasn't been fixed. Not that being in the issue tracker is a guarantee, but it is a first step.
In reply to Did you see my post from a by Marc Sabatella
Sorry, missed it before I replied. I will report the bug tonight.
As for the other issue, it was the one you saw (saving lyrics under grace notes). Someone else had reported the same bug so, I left it. Last time I tried to save a lyric (sticking for us drummers) it did not save even though it was marked as fixed as you saw. I tried this aain not too long ago so....
Thanks!
Mike
In reply to Stem disappears when adding high hat part by shapsticks
All the drum notation I have seen has notes played with the feet with stems pointing down and those with the hands pointing up - not that I'm an expert in drum notation, but that is how a percussion specialist colleague of mine taught me to write drum parts. He is now, sadly, playing his drums in the heavenly orchestra.
I do gather that there is some variation in the way drum scores are written, but I believe that to be the norm.
In any case, the stem really should be displayed whether it points up or down, so it's definitely worth opening in the issue tracker, but it would be helpful to ascertain whether this bug still exists in one of the nightly builds.
As a work around have you tried entering the pedal hihat in voice 2 and then flipping the stem to up?
HTH
Michael
In reply to All the drum notation I have by ChurchOrganist
Btw, when entering the issue into the teacker, it will help if you list the exact steps to reproduce it. When I tried to reproduce your measure, I couldn't get the stem to not appear. But them, I don't know what you did to get that note to appear on voice 1, either - it normally shows up in voice 2. So obviously you did something a bit unusual.
In reply to All the drum notation I have by ChurchOrganist
I have tried using voice 2 and flipping the stem and it doesn't work. Your friend was correct, they were, at one time written that way. However drum set notation is now moving towards using one voice. Pretty much all drum set parts are written this way and if they're not, they should be.
Sorry about your friend and thanks for your help.
Mike
In reply to I have tried using voice 2 by shapsticks
FWIW, I see new published charts from the major jazz big band publishers on a pretty basis, and I haven"t noticed any switchng to the single voice method. Might only be in some circles that this change is being made? But in any event, perhaps it is worth customizing a drum set to work that way and submitting it for inclusion in the next release, so users could have a choice of either style without needing to roll their own.
In reply to FWIW, I see new published by Marc Sabatella
The big band chart publishers seem to take their time moving to the new notation. Be that as it may, myself and many other authors are using this method and whether certain publishers do it the old way, I still need to do it the newer way.
At your suggestion, I think I tried customizing a drum set and it didn't seem to work which is why I submitted a bug report.
Thanks for all your help.
In reply to The big band chart publishers by shapsticks
Right, I'm assuming now that there is an actual issue submitted, it may be fixed for 2.0. And in any event, even without the bug being fixed, it still seems having a drum set with all drums in one voice would save the trouble of needing to explicitly change voices every time you enter a bass drum or hi hat. Could also be worth adding what you think would be reasonable keyboard shortcuts. My own custom drum set (as included in the Jazz Big Band and jazz Combo templates) uses shortcuts for hit hat, bass drum, ride, snare, and tom, with additional shortcuts to create slash notation and a notes above the staff to indicate "kicks". This means I almost never need to click anything anywhere; I can enter drums with keyboard just as I other instruments.
In reply to Right, I'm assuming now that by Marc Sabatella
I'll check it out, thanks.
This problem has now been entered into the issue tracker:-
#16353: Disappearing stem
Incidentally I thought up a workaround last night just before going to sleep.
It is a bit fiddly but would work.
Insert a straight line from the Lines Palette then use Edit Mode to adjust angle and length.
Then move it into position next to the x notehead.
HTH
Michael
In reply to This problem has now been by ChurchOrganist
I'll give that a shot.
Thanks!
Hi!
The thread's almost a year old, but I've just been having the same problem and now I found another workaround:
By double clicking on the stem of the snare drum note in the example (or any other note's stem in a double stop) you can edit the length of the stem and thus make it reach the head of the hi hat note.
So long
Ulf
In reply to Workaround by lllf
The above tip only works if the note without stem is noted below the one with stem (well, depends on the original direction of the stem). In the reverse case one must move the stem to the upper note and then edit it as described above.
In another thread I read this problem stems from the midi pitches of the drum notes. It happens, when two notes are in one chord and the lower note has a midi pitch that is higher than the midi pitch of the higher notated note. Then the length of the stem is not computed correctly.
Another workaround would be to edit the drumset in a way that lower notated notes also have lower midi pitches, but then you would probably loose the proper assignment of sounds and notated notes. Or one uses or creates a soundfont in which this condition is met.
So long
Ulf