Does anyone have tips for a young composer (piano mainly)?

• Jun 26, 2012 - 23:58

Hey everyone! This is not directly related to mmuse score other than to say that in my opinion musescore has a a terrible piano sound/notation. My main question was to ask if any of you had some tips for me as a young (14) composer who is mostly writes for piano. i would love any comments or pointers. I hope to become the next george winston:).
- Cookie Monster

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 01:28

My advice....

Practice, practice, practice.

And when you get fed up.....

Practice some more!

eventually you'll realise that writing music is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration :)

And if you need any help along the way there are several guys here who will give you a hand, myself included :)

And as for the piano sound - yes, the default one is crap! Install a better soundfont and that problem will magically disappear :)

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 02:39

Yes, Cookie Monster, the default soundfont (TimGM) leaves a lot to be desired in the piano department, particularly when it comes to the acoustic grand piano sound. I was using the big FluidGM soundfont, which has some nice sounds, but I eventually found the grand piano sound setting my nerves on edge. It's very bright and has some really rough edges; in the higher registers it sounds to me more like a loud harpsichord than a grand piano.

I'm now using Giga Piano, which you might want to try. It's in a compressed archive with 24 other piano soundfonts. Giga Piano is the only one I like in the archive; it's supposed to resemble a Steinway B piano.

The file to download is available on MediaFire at http://www.mediafire.com/?4uhginmjztm (it's in RAR format, so you'll need a utility that can open .RAR files). The file size is about 83 MB, while the uncompressed files add up to 185 MB, with Giga Piano taking up about 17 MB of that.

If you need to play back scores for other intruments, however, you'll get silence from this one, as it is strictly a piano soundfont.

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 11:12

Who uses MuseScore as a replacement for a decent DAW/sequencer/digital piano? It's NOTATION software. Flesh out your ideas on a real piano and then transcribe! Or get a better imagination of what a piano sounds like. Honestly, I've never seen so many people moaning about something that, ultimately, is your naff computer's fault. Pianos are very difficult to replicate - do you honestly think you can expect the same quality as that which the likes of Yamaha, Korg, Roland et al have been working on for decades?

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 05:04

To be perfectly honest, I've found that even more than just waiting for inspiration or writing down what sounds nice, music theory has exponentially improved my composition skills. It sounds boring (and to some extent, it really can be), but it's what makes music. Listen to your favorite composers. More than that, listen to DIFFERENT composers (as different as, say, Bach and Nobuo Uematsu, or Ed Huckeby and Eric Whitacre. Yes, inspiration is important. However, it would be silly just to WAIT for something to pop into your head (if you ever become a professional, you may have to work with uncomfortable deadlines). Listen to phrases or songs that you really like and figure out why you like them. Chord structure? Chord progression? Articulation? Time signature? Anyway, just figure out what you like in music. Figure out what types of chords, articulations, time signatures, etc. evoke what emotions. If you want a lullaby, don't use a minor key or loud dynamics. If you want a rag, make sure you syncopate it correctly and use the correct format. Yes, you may get extremely bored or frustrated at times, but if you stick with it and keep trying new things, you're bound to come up with something.

I hope I've helped somehow.
iHasCheese

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 10:29

Wow! I've not seen a younger writer in a long time. It's great to meet someone who is close to my age and has an interest in composing. It's a great form of expression.

Never limit yourself, never be afraid to try something new, and always write from the heart.

Do you play the piano? (I'm assuming yes..)

Thanks!

Shane

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 11:08

My admiration for anyone wanting to compose, but I had to laugh at someone coming on to the MuseScore forum to ask an off-topic question and beginning by telling us all how terrible the software is! I guess the stereotypical teenager down to the ground.

The sound of the piano is not MuseScore's fault - try investing in a decent DAW or digital piano if you want the sound. Or if MS isn't good enough for you, go and buy something like Sibelius instead.

Think yourself lucky you have computer tools to aid in the writing down of music - it would've taken hours or days before to do it with pen and manuscript paper.

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 22:59

Unless this has changed recently, the default sounds in Sinelius are nothing special either, for basically the same reason: to save space. But both programs allow you to install better sounds, and piano is actually about the easiest sound to find a decent replacement for.

As for MuseScore being bad at notation, you'll find that an even harder case to make, but if you are having specific problems, you might want to start specific threads asking for help in increasing your understanding of how to do things.

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 18:30

I know some call it old fashioned, but it is true: Try not to compose at the piano. Don't do what the movies and the dramatized clips tell you to do, which is to sit at the piano, or computer, and do it as you go. This will not get you far. There is great evidence to suggest that Mozart, Beethoven, and Haydn all composed one thought at a time, one line at a time, from start to finish FIRST without using a keyboard or instrument and then going back and modifying it.

I had a professor that said the following: "Composing is like blowing up a balloon. Your idea should be congealed first, but putting a balloon piece by piece one note at a time at a keyboard or a computer will give you a patchy balloon."

My greatest suggestion? Buy big paper, with lots of room on it, with plenty of empty staves which room in between and write down your ideas. I have a tablet of 11x17 paper with 12-15 staves on them, which is great for breaking down ideas.

Another reason why I would not compose at the computer (sometimes it is necessary to use the piano, so don't quote me as saying that I don't think you should use a piano at all) is because it won't be easy to think of spaces. Computers train people to compose continuously without stopping, which means you won't naturally have as good a time creating rests. I can't remember who said it, but they say, "Music is the silence between the notes." This is absolutely true. Music is organic and an expression of organic beings. We have to breathe, and so does your music. Doing it straight to a computer does not encourage that.

Make sense? Re-post with questions if you would like.

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SteveMerrony
• Jun 28, 2012 - 00:07

When I was at college we had to compose 'on paper', but that was thirty years ago... These days we can compose with the aid of MuseScore (and/or it's commercial equivalents) and instantly get some (not so) vague idea of what our ideas might sound like when performed. That was just a dream thirty years ago: the 'best' two or three compositions from a year _might_ get put before the college orchestra so that the chosen few could hear the composers' mistakes! The rest were consigned to being filed on the eternal bookshelf of unheard manuscripts.

Now that I am fortunate enough to conduct and study great works I feel that I understand that the truly great composers were/are not high-falutin theoretists* but were/are truly effective and committed communicators. Surely the urge to communicate ideas should be what drives composers. Tools which make that easier, by intimating what the score actually represents are surely to be welcomed - even by the traditionally conservative music colleges and departments.

I see a great deal of dross on the internet from would-be composers who really don't have the first idea about how their ideas should be set out 'on paper', but also there is a great deal of highly commendable work - music that deserves to be heard. My fervent hope is that we are now entering a golden age of composition and that the sheer availability of software like MuseScore will enable great ideas to surface and be widely disseminated.

*Nothing wrong with theory - ultimately it is a requirement, but advanced theoretical understanding is not a substitute for genuine creativity.

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• Jun 28, 2012 - 03:17

If composing was about exposure, then it is easier now than ever to get that exposure. All you need is family, and some friends, musescore.org, and you are good to go. Composition is a craft, and so I would ask of you and the one who initiated the forum what your intentions are for composition.

I don't want to imply with my post that composition on the computer is not VALID. I do believe it is valid - just not as effective. Unless you have a giant screen, a lot of brain, and a thorough knowledge of musical devices and theoretical tools, then sure, you might be able to compose more effectively on computer. But, we are talking about a 14 year old who aspires to write music. I don't know what kind of training this person has, but if it is my guess, unless he is a child prodigy, he doesn't have some of those tools yet, just some incomplete ideas. I think, for the sake of mastering the art of composition and doing more with it, this person needs to take the time and learn some tools, especially when they are young.

Also, I am not against transcribing into musescore either. I want to make this perfectly clear - I believe that the first step is to write it down, to actually learn some aural skills, and print some idea down on paper. This slows down the mind to think about what it wants, and then be able to modify it once complete in thought. It also incorporates silence which is as important (if not more) than the actual notes themselves. I would, once the idea is written down, encourage the young composer to play it and learn some keyboarding and become somewhat proficient, that way they can hear the tones and hear somewhat what it should sound like. Then, if the young one has delayed gratification and learned patience, I would for sure encourage he/she to transcribe it into musescore.

I didn't come from a conservatory, nor from a school with a restless old crock as a composition teacher, but a young, challenging, vibrant, and public university (one of the best in the east coast). My composition teacher said this about composition: "If you go to school to compose, or take lessons to compose, then you actually don't need a teacher. The internet has plenty of opinions on what to do, most of it telling you to follow your own voice. But, if you are asking for help, prepare to be challenged."

Everyone on this forum can agree that if you challenge the boundaries of composition, challenge your ears, and challenge your thinking, you will realize that we only compose what we are familiar and subconsciously instilled with in our own self-cultures (what we listen to, what we hear in advertising, etc). So, the voice that an aspiring 14 year old is certainly not his own; it needs to be shaped by how he/she is pushed. He/she needs to be driven outside of what he/she thinks or desire to write. Writing certainly helps with this process.

One final thing: If a composer feels dross over what they are not sure about what to write down on paper, it certainly isn't going to be any easier when writing it in a computer program. In fact, logically, the idea that some composers don't know what they want in the first place is a sign of weak tools and discipline.

Again, this is my take, and I don't want to sound like a run on, but I do want to clarify these things in hopes of further inspiring a young mind. :)

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 19:49

The best advice I can give is to not get overwhelmed by the process and compose EVERY DAY. Don't worry about the results. As you go on, more and more of it will make sense.

To paraphrase Stravinsky in his auto-biography, "First, become a great craftsman. If you are an artist, art will naturally appear. If not, at least you will be a great craftsman".

Already there is so much advice here that it is easy to get confused and end up doing nothing.

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 20:33

Don't formally sit down and compose every day, not unless you have already landed a lucrative contract for the score for a big movie. You need to set aside a couple of days where you catch up on all schoolwork, including revision, one day (at least) where you are a normal 14-yr old and spend time with family and friends, one day when you ensure you stay physically fit. You can combine those activities, of course. Your subconscious will compose for you during those times; carry a small notebook with you if you must or even a cheap MP3 recorder that you can whistle or hum into into.

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 21:11

It could be useful to develop a routine. Think about what you are saying if you were talking to a 14-year old aspiring to be a runner: "Not unless you are going to the Olympics should you worry about running every day." You know that to become a good runner you need to train every day, regardless of the Olympics.

If you only entreat your mind to do composition when it wants to, then you won't be able to write when you need to/want to. You have to learn to train your mind to stick to it, and compose something (even if it is a few bars a day).

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• Jun 27, 2012 - 23:41

One more thing: Although studying the work of other composers can teach you a lot, it's easy to fall under their influence and not develop your own unique style. By studying your own work (i.e. your previous attempts at composition) you'll learn to identify your strengths and weaknesses, and eventually become your own influence on yourself, so to speak.

Also, some people are intimidated by comparing themselves with professional musicians. I taught myself classical guitar, and when I was looking for work as a guitar teacher way back in the 1970's, one of the studio owners said to me, "Never let the professionals get you down!"

With due respect to the maestros out there, don't let them discourage you. Do the best you can with what you've got.

Sorry, that was more than one thing. ;)

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• Jun 28, 2012 - 03:01

I would say that actually it is by writing "in the style of" other composers that you begin to develop your own style.

There is so much to be learnt from emulating what has gone before - apart form anything else - how to break the rules :)

I also agree with another comment further up - DO write every day - that way when someone walks up to you and says: " Can you write me a piece of music" you won't find it a chore.

You need to be able to knock out a tune on demand :) The truly inspirational stuff you keep for yourself and nurture it until it explodes onto manuscript paper :)

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• Jun 28, 2012 - 03:58

True enough, but I think a lot depends on a composer's goals. If the aim is to sell his compositions, then yes, I agree with you. If on the other hand, he writes music solely for the joy of it, as I do, then he wouldn't necessarily need to write pieces on demand -- except perhaps on his own demand, that is, if he feels driven to write them. In my view, that's when an artist creates his best works.

Hack work doesn't cut it for me. I spent some time as an aspiring author, as well, and the only two items I managed to sell were not the kind of stuff I really wanted to write -- a couple of articles in a computer magazine. Meanwhile, I kept my day job and wrote hundreds of poems in my free time.

BTW, regarding music on demand, Victor Borge once said "I don't usually take requests ... unless I'm asked to." ;)

Another quote just came to mind: Richard Strauss once said that he wanted to write music the way a cow gives milk!

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• Jun 28, 2012 - 12:03

"If the aim is to sell his compositions"

Ah! The Holy Grail for all of us writing music!

I started composing seriously in 1976 - despite submitting numerous pieces for publication to numerous publishing companies I have never had anything accepted.

If only the Internet had been available back then! Now we have wonderful tools like MuseScore.com to publish our work on, and search engines like Google to publicise our websites.

Most of my writing on demand has been little pieces and exercises for my students, many of them written specially for a specific student to overcome a technical problem - I have a box full of them which will all get transferred to Musescore one day :)

If you are intending to enter music professionally or semi-professionally then the ability to conjure a tune out of thin air is incredibly useful, particularly in recording studios.

You then end up with a vast library of snippets you can use in your more serious work. That's how Bach and Mozart did it :)

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• Jun 28, 2012 - 15:54

"If the aim is to sell his compositions"

Ah! The Holy Grail for all of us writing music!

Well, not exactly all of us, if you exclude me, and possibly some other closet composers -- but your post does make a lot of sense. As for me, I don't aspire to greatness or recognition, and as an old-age pensioner, I no longer need to earn a living. My "Holy Grail" is simply to stay happy and preserve my sanity; that's why I listen to lots of music, and composing it has the added benefit of keeping my mind active.

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• Jun 30, 2012 - 17:11

There's two sides to composing -- following your ear, and using theory as a guide. You need to do both. DO NOT pay mind to the attitude that composers write "by feel, man!" nor to the attitude that theory is everything. You need to listen to your gut and be able to read maps both. Theory is nothing more than the grammar of the language that is music, and just as with spoken language, knowing grammar enables you to create more complex structures than simple extemporaneous speech. However, knowing grammar doesn't get in the way of your speaking off the cuff either. Just because you know what a preposition is and how to structure a novel doesn't suddenly collapse your ability to speak persuasively -- or at least it shouldn't. If your muse is so weak and frail that knowing what a subdominant chord is will cause it to faint, your muse needs to toughen up. :-)

Also, the most important tool to any composer is the eraser, or on a computer the delete key. If something doesn't sound good, you don't HAVE to let it stand. Remove it! Rewrite it, shuffle it around. This isn't like sculpting marble where you can't back up from something that you decide you don't like.

Another big tool in a composer's toolchest is PATIENCE. The typical way that a good piece of music will start is that you'll have a sudden blast of inspiration that will come to you rapidly. You'll come up with the kernel of a song quickly in a very pleasant rush, and it's easy to think that the rest of the process will consist of a few more of those pleasant bursts, and in two weeks tops, you'll have a finished piece. NOTHING could be further from the truth. You'll very likely start with that initiatial pleasant burst of inspiration, and then it will turn into a few MONTHS of very hard work that will leave you exhausted and even doubting yourself. This is normal. If you try to rush things, or if you think that a few more inspired bursts will be all it takes, you will probably end up with a piece that sounds like a great 90-second idea in a big box full of foam peanuts. :-) Just be prepared to take time, keep working, don't be impatient. Understand that the development process for a good musical idea is most often longer, harder, and more draining than the initial burst of inspiration that got it started.

Meanwhile -- in direct contradiction to what I just said :-) -- if you want to do this for a living, you may sometimes find that you are under a deadline and NEED to rush things a bit. That's why it's often nice to have a few pieces in the pipeline, in various stages of progress. Also ... oh, well. Sometimes you need to rush and release something before you're entirely happy with it. It happens; don't beat yourself up over it.

And the most important piece of advice I have for you is the following: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES STOP COMPOSING. Success means not stopping, nothing more complicated than that. YOU MUST ALWAYS ALWAYS WRITE. The average "overnight success" takes ten to fifteen years.

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• Jul 5, 2012 - 15:22

If you want to be a writer, you should read lots and lots of great books. In the genre you want to write in, but also others.

If you want to be an jazz saxophonist, you should listen to lots and lots of great improvised solos. Sax solos, sure. But other instruments and non-jazz stuff too.

And so it would follow that if you want to be a composer, you should listen to lots and lots of great music. Of all types/eras/cultures.

Actually, it would probably help to listen to bad music too. Because you're not only listening to absorb an influence and expose yourself to a musical language. You should also listen actively--thoughfully and critically. What makes it good or bad? Why did the composer do this and not that? What effect does it have? Do you like that effect? What if he/she did this instead of that?

- Jeff

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