More bend notations

• Jul 22, 2012 - 00:35
S5 - Suggestion

i don't know what they are called exactly, please see the attached png (sorry for my drawing skills :/ ).

The first one is a kind of short glissando from an undefined high note down to the note it is attached to. This is sometimes used in jazz trumpet/trombone parts.

The second one is pretty much the other way round, sliding up to the written note from something lower. I think this one can be played on a lot of instruments (strings, guitars, etc)

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It must be a gliss of some sort. I've posted a question on my Facebook page, someone should know. I'll also ask a trombone player I know.

I think it is - I was just asking dstaubsauger to confirm that's what he wanted.

Attached examples in this post show it (if you ignore the exclamation mark and non-wiggly line).

It is a glissando, albeit without the word "glissando" attached (which, IMHO is pretty unnecessary by default).

The main difference is that (at least using MS 1.2) you currently need to select two notes - a start and an end - for the glissando. In order to display something like what the OP wants you have to go through a fair few hoops and create a second voice to place the first note and then hide the first note.

Also, the glissando - as is - has a tendency to be too smart and links all adjacent notes of the same pitch in that measure. In this respect it is behaving as if it were a tie.

As a feature request I would re-state this as a request for a symbol representing a glissando that can be attached before a single note and that has no text enabled by default and that can have its direction (rising up, going down) selected.

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@underquark: thanks, "glissando that can be attached before a single note and that has no text enabled by default and that can have its direction (rising up, going down)" fits exactly what i meant! The u-shaped thing in my drawing is mostly played like the other two in the same row (upward glissando to the note it's attached to), but it would be nice to have as it takes up less space.

Seems the 2.0 "falls and doits" palette is where thesewould go, although I don't really understand why a separate palette was created for these in the first place (as opposed to uisng the articulations palette). It's pretty easy to anticipate the set of synbols you'd want. They'd all attach to a single note, and you'd want a straight line, curved line, and a wavy line, each inboth "up" and "down" configurations, each possibly starting on the note extending to the right or, like the ones in the example here, starting to the left of the note and finishing on it.

Title Bend and glissando signs for brass music Glissando connected to one note

With the examples I have, I don't think it's confined to brass or jazz. Is there a better title though to address possibly other related elements not addressed?

There is an interesting PDF (from here - same link as guifre provided).

Title Glissando connected to one note request for more bend notations

Best generic term I can think of is "bends". See #15077: Lip Slur Symbols (includes drawings and details), of which I would call this a duplicate, except both these issues are kind of too specific. Like I said, there are basically three shapes in common use, all three can be up or down, all either before or after the note: 12 symbols in all by my count. Actually, I'd add four more - the four variation on an angled line rather than a curved one. That's 16 in all.

The current (2.) "falls and doits" palette includes exactly two of these - curved line in up and down position, after note only. So I figure we're 1/8 the way there. Get the curved line happening before note (up and down variants), then add the straight line, wavy line, and angled line in all four variants.

Hey everyone,
I just found this thread and wanted to check in as I am the guy who started the other thread linked too in this thread that deals with this topic. I also posted the PDF linked too by guifre.

I am not an expert on notation but I have played Sax for about 30 years in all kinds of settings from Jazz to Pop to Classical as a student and professionally. I have not been much of a composer/writer/arranger so most of my experience is from the performance side and most of what I'm familiar with is notations for Saxophone (woodwinds in general). I did do a bit of online research on Jazz notations (the PDF is a summation of my findings) and one thing that was confirmed from my research was that Jazz articulations are far from standardized. This is probably due to the fact that Jazz is a relatively new music and also because there is considerably more freedom in how a Jazz musician interprets a written note so everyone has their own style of playing the same note. Add to that the freedom of improvisation and you have a wide open ball game for new articulations!

I do have to agree with Marc Sabatella in his posts here that having three symbols, straight, wavy and u-shaped lines, that can be attached to either side of a single note that can either be slanted upwards or downwards would cover the most common "standard" articulations specific to Jazz (standard by what I've seen). I would add that you would also need to be able to place the u-shaped line above a single note to cover the extremely common "pitch bend" effect (establish the pitch, bend the pitch down, re-establish pitch).

I did find a lot of great notations in my research that I had not seen before but that addressed some relatively common Jazz practices (particularly on the improv side of things). Given the wealth of less common symbols and the wealth of new symbols need for new techniques possibly the best way to accommodate this would be some kind of way to design and save custom symbols within the program.

See my comment #11 here. Both issues are asking for more symbols, but not exactly the same ones. I think we should have a single issue that lists all sixteen of the symbols I have described. Since I have done that here, perhaps it is 15077 that should be closed as a duplicate of this?

It seems SMuFL defines most of these symbols, and Bravura provides them - or at least, I see them in the Master Palette. They don't necessary attach as one would hope, though.