Changing voices with ties - Is this a bug?

• Jun 7, 2018 - 13:41

Forgive this question if it has been dealt with before, but I have done a short search, and do not see this in the forums or handbook.

I've noticed that if I try to change the voice (1>2, 2>1, etc.) of passages that contain ties, the tied notes are not changed. I find that I have to remove the ties from the offending sections, and insert them again after I've switched the voices. It's a little cumbersome/time consuming to have to do this for every tied note in a passage.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Thanks,
Tom


Comments

If you are using the edit->voices->exchange... menu command, tied notes are exchanged. If you use the buttons on the tool bar or ctrl+alt+2 to move a tied note to voice 2 it does not work. It has been discussed, but I don't remember why it is this way, but it didn't seem it would be changed.

In reply to by toffle

Well, it depends. If you have some special need to take notes that were originally entered in one voice and then combine them, then using the voice buttons is indeed one way to do this, and it is a known limitation that this does not support ties (or tuplets, btw). If the rhythms match well enough, you can also try Edit / Tools / Implode, which will handle ties but might not handle cases of mixed rhythms the way you want (or maybe it does).

The bigger question to me is, why enter the notes into the wrong voice then move them Generally, you should simply enter them into the voice you want to begin with. So if you weren't doing that because you didn't realize it would help, then yes, you've been doing it wrong :-). But if you did in fact need them in separate voices at one time and are now changing your mind, then no, you're not doing it wrong, but Implode still might match your needs better.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

In this particular case, I've got a melody which begins on the 5th of the chord. Later, a harmonious line begins on the tonic, and even later, I combine the notes into one line. (actually there are four lines going at this time, but I don't want to cloud the issue... they are not rhythmically identical and are notated as voice 1 and 2 in a separate part.)

As I understand it, I cannot simply copy and paste the one part on top of the other, as Musescore will simply replace the melody at the destination.

If, however, I change the one melody part to voice two, I can paste them together. Then I select the region of combined notes, and use the voice button to change them all to voice 1. This works fine except for the tied notes.

Interestingly, this all takes less time than typing about it here, and as usual, I regret asking. I did not enter the notes in the WRONG voice. I (temporarily) changed the voice of one group of notes so I could paste them together. If Musescore has a better way of handling this, please let me know.

Thanks.
Tom

In reply to by mike320

Thanks, Mike. That works.
For the record, the notes were only in separate voices so I could copy them into the same measures without overwriting the existing notes. (I still don't know if there's a better way to accomplish that.)

Tom

In reply to by toffle

The big picture question is still, why are you entering them into separate places then combining, rather than simply entering them where you want them in the first place? As I said before, if you actually needed them in separate places first then changed your mind, that's fine, just trying to understand if you realize it would have been possile to enter this directly without resorting to all this stuff with voices and copy and paste. Which is to say, it would still help to understand what you are actually dealing with here and trying to accomplish here.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Ok.
Let's say I have a group of notes. We'll call this group A. They are not in the wrong spot - they are where I want them.
I also have a group of notes: B. These notes are also where I want them.
I want a third group of notes: AB.

I am not changing my mind; I am trying to combine the two parts. This combined group is intended at another place in the score.

Ties and tuplets aside, how do I combine A and B?

Attachment Size
Combining Parts Test.mscz 8.81 KB

In reply to by toffle

Somehow I guess I'm not making myself clear. What I'm still not understanding is how you ended up with two separate parts in the first place, if your intent was to combine them. And understanding that is important to being able to fully answer the question of what the best procedure to follow is. I guess what you're saying is, there is one place in the score where you want the notes separate, and another where you want them combined? I'd suggest the best way to do that is to enter the combined parts first - then you only need to get deal with the rhythmic aspect once - and then Explode to separate them. I still can't tell, though, if we're talking about A & B happening at two different points in time as in your test, or happening at the same time but in different as I have been assuming thus far. If the latter, then Explode/Implode is absolutely the way to go. If not, I'd probably add a temporary staff just so I could use those facilities.

But again, I'd still also need to understand exactly what "combine" means here. if the rhythms are compatible, then you could combine them into chords, which is I thought what you've been trying to do all along. And Implode nails that. But you've also indicated sometimes the rhythms are not the same, in which case, I guess maybe you want multiple voices, but then it isnt clear if you want multiple voices all the way or what.

Basically, seeing real world context would help a to in understanding what you are actually trying to do here, so we can assist better.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

As foolish as it sounds, I start my compositions at the beginning. In this case it was the solo A line.
Much of my output takes place at a kitchen table with staff paper, (This has been my process for nearly fifty years) or in front of a computer - not worked out in full at an instrument. This means that I often only discover the direction of a piece of music as it unfolds.

The first statement of the theme, (much longer than the fragment I uploaded) is on its own. This was the seed that I chose to develop throughout the score.

The second statement, B, flowed naturally from the first.

It only occurred to me later that the two would be combined later in the score... after I had written both A and B. AB came out of the overall process.

The rhythms are indeed compatible, otherwise, I would have left them in separate voices. The decision to combine into a single voice was to clean up stems and other collisions.

To be clear, there was no AB in this piece until the music development required it, so there was no AB to input/explode.

Thanks,
Tom

In reply to by toffle

OK, nothing wrong with any of that. It's just that you asked if you there any more efficient ways of doing things, and I was trying to understand better in order to give the best possible answer.

So as it is, with your test file, I'd do the following:

1) copy A to AB
2) exchange voice 1-2 in section AB
3) copy B to AB
4) edit / tools / implode in section AB

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanks, Marc.
My process is (almost) exactly what you describe.
1-3 is what I did in the original file.
For 4, I tried to force the two voices into one by using the voice selector at the top of the screen.
As you and Mike have suggested, Implode works much better for this.

Thanks again.
Tom

(Off topic, but you should see the fun I had with C and D.) :)

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