Courtesy clefs not working in version 2.3.2

• Mar 28, 2019 - 19:17

Have checked both "Create Courtesy Clefs" in "Style>General>Page" as well as "Show Courtesy" under "Clef" in the inspector for current clef but courtesy clefs are NOT being created.

How can this problem be resolved?


Another guess: make sure you don't have section breaks present, those would disable courtesy clefs. Also, courtesy clefs only appear for clef changes before the measure, not clef changes within a measure.

Aside from that it should work, so we would indeed need you to attach your score to understand and assist better.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

DemoCourtesyClefFailure.mscz DemoCourtesyClefSuccess.mscz

OK, but it gets a little complicated. I tried to copy/paste a few lines from the score that exhibits the failure to a simple small file for demonstration purposes. However, as Musescore is prone to do the measures within those lines were rearranged such that a courtesy clef no longer came into play. I couldn't figure out why. As best I could tell my attempt at making a demo score used the same style settings as the failing score. However, by changing the Style>General>Spacing setting to compress a bit more the measures were then rearranged back to such a state that the courtesy clef does apply. AND, wouldn't you know, the courtesy clef was successfully included.

Therefore, it appears as though the only way to demonstrate the failure is to send the complete score that I'm in the process of entering. Insofar, as I wouldn't be surprised to find that the courtesy clef appears when you open it I did go to the trouble of opening the failing score on another computer that has a different version of Musescore installed. Therefore, on my computers using both Musescore 2.3.2 & 2.0.3 I get the same unsuccessful result.

The problem that I'm experiencing can be seen in Measures 164 to 168. A mid-line change from Base to Treble Clef which occurs at Measure 164. Then Measure 167 is positioned at the end of that line and Measure 168 begins the next line where the change back to the Base Clef occurs. The courtesy clef is expected at the end of Measure 167.

In the way of speculation, I'm thinking that this could be a situation where adding the courtesy clef would cause Measure 167 to be moved to the next line which would mean that a courtesy clef is no longer applicable but with NO courtesy clef Measure 167 fits properly into the line where it appears on my computer. How would Musescore handle such a situation?

Anyway, I thought I should attach both the successful and failed demonstration scores.

In reply to by aajax

Just as I guessed, it looks like you added the change to bass clef as a mid-measure change within the measure (in this case, to the first note) rather than a regular change applying before the measure. So, delete that mid-measure clef change and re-add it to the measure itself.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Something I did NOT understand was the difference between inserting a clef change before a note verses before a measure.

However, I'm still having some difficulty figuring out how to correct this problem in the score that I used as an example to demonstrate the problem. The steps I followed to try and do this follow:
1. Insert a measure before Measure 168. This displays the clef change in, the original, Measure 168 after the barline rather than before which confirms that the base clef was inserted before a note.
2. Select the old Measure 168 (now 169) and insert a base clef before it. It now appears before the barline.
3. Delete the original base clef that appears after the barline.
4. Delete the measure inserted in step 1.

When I do this the courtesy clef is still missing in my score at the end of Measure 167. Other than that I don't see any difference between my problem score and the sample returned by Shoichi in the file named "DemoCourtesyClefFailureBis.mscz". So now the question is "how was that done?".

In reply to by aajax

Not sure why you did all that. Simply delete the clef then re-add it correctly - eg, drag it to the measure rather to a specific note within it, or select the measure then double-click in the palette. No extra inserting of measures required.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Inserting the measure allowed the clef change to appear within the line (system) rather than at the beginning of the staff. When positioned at the beginning of the staff you (maybe I should "I") can NOT tell whether the original clef change was applied to the note or the measure. In that, it now appears after a barline rather than before which I took to be the way to tell that the original clef change was NOT done as it should have been and therefore needed to be changed. Also, when doing that all of the measures on the prior line stay there whereas when I do other things such as what you suggest Measure 167 gets moved to the beginning of the next line and then there is no need for a courtesy clef. While this would be fine as far as the music is concerned it fails to demonstrate the point at issue here which is that courtesy clefs do get inserted when appropriate. I notice that the change to my score that was was returned with the courtesy clef as I've been expecting it did have a system break added at (after) Measure 167. When I do that and follow your advice Measure 167 gets moved to the next line but the system break causes it to be the only measure on that line but this does then include the courtesy clef even though this would also not be the desired layout.

This causes me to think that possibly my prior speculation about there being insufficient room on the original line to add the courtesy clef & therefore the measure gets moved to the next line. The system break preserves the end of line condition. I imagine that if something else, which I haven't figured out how to do, can be done to adjust (squeeze if you will) the formatting such that the courtesy clef can be included on the original line that would explain how the sample which appears as I'd like was created. I'd like to know how to do that!!!

In reply to by aajax

Clef changes always occur to all notes from that point forward. So there is no difference in meaning between a clef change on the first note versus one at the beginning of the measure - both are interpreted by musicians exactly the same way. The only relevant difference is that one gets a courtesy clef an the other doesn't. So again, you are way overcomplicating this. Just deleting the mid-measure clef changes and insert a proper one and you're done, everything works perfectly. If the measure is at the start of a system, it needs a courtesy clef, and MsueScore adds one automatically, otherwise it doesn't. You don't have to spend time worrying about this, it also happens correctly right out of the box, if you add things correctly in the first place.

That said, if you just want to get a better view of the clef change by placing it mid-system, no need for inserting measures - just add a line break a measure or two earlier.

But I don't understand your last question. Again, it looks perfect if you do as I suggested. If the measure with the clef change fits on the previous system, no courtesy is generated, but if it starts a new system, a courtesy is generated. If you're saying you want to force the measure to the next system in a situation where it wouldn't have otherwise, add a system break. If you want to force it to the previous system , reduce stretch, or add system breaks to previous measures to get things to line up how you like. Generally, though, that's a lot of unnecessary work - the default layout should be fine.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I get your points about courtesy clefs and as you say they do seem to work correctly. You have advised how to correct the problem that provoked this topic. You are also probably correct about wasting time on a non-problem. I was only trying to figure out how to do what it looks like Shoichi succeeded at doing to the demonstration score that I had submitted.

Thank you very much for your help. Problem solved. Time to move on.

In reply to by aajax

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your request.
Try to open your DemoCourtesyClefFailure score.
Select measure 168, double-click the Treble clef in the palette;
Select measure 168, double-click the Bass clef in the palette
Select bars 163-168, decrease stretch.

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