Getting the playback to go to the segno multiple times.
Hi, I'm trying to have the playback go twice or 3 times to the segno.
How do I achieve that? I don't see it in "Inspector" and I don't see it in the Handbook.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Comments
Currently a jump can only be taken once (by standard convention).
In reply to Currently a jump can only be… by jeetee
Thank you.
(P.S. That must be a "classical standard", because in the jazz and pop world, you can go to the segno as often as you need to.)
In reply to Currently a jump can only be… by jeetee
Hi, are you considering creating the possibility for the playback to go back to the segno several times, for people who are in the jazz or pop world? (It will help reduce the number of sheets if the jump to the segno can be repeated several times when the music is doing that and the double-dot repeat cannot be used.)
In reply to Hi, are you considering… by rcamelia
A jump is only honored once, but if the jump is identical, then you can add multiple jumps (and turn the extra ones invisible).
The caveat is that you have no control over which jump is taken in which order when they are written that way. Which is why I mentioned to only do this if the jump is identical.
See attached example.
In reply to Hi, are you considering… by rcamelia
The only time I can think of in the jazz world where a DS would be taken multiple times is for a lead sheet where a tune in AABA format is written with a DS instead of having the final A section written out directlty. I don't recommend that as it tends to contribute to people getting lost in the form (and that's why we elected not to do by default when I was helping edit the Real Book series). For lead sheets created this way, to hear the playback multiple times, simply use the "loop" feature (see the toggle button on the toolbar).
If you have some other special case where you are needing a DS taken some specific number of times, please attach the score and explain the intended roadmap, then we may be able to advise better.
In reply to The only time I can think of… by Marc Sabatella
I used the word jazz, but I meant other non-classical music.
I'm attaching a recent score where I wanted the playback to go to the DS 4 times before taking the Coda.
After doing a search here I realized that there is a good amount of people that also want this feature.
GUAJIRA GUANTANAMERA (Piano,Bass,Accord.) - guajira.mscz
In reply to I used the word jazz, but I… by rcamelia
Can you post links to the others? I can't recall it having come up more than two or three times in the past ten years. But anyhow, indeed, someday it could be useful indeed. Seeing all the requests in one place would help in prioritizing it.
As it is, FWIW as a professional musician and editor, I definitely would not recommend doing this for your this chart. It makes it way too complicated to read, way too easy to get lost in all the repeats and counting. You'll have much more success just writing out some of these repeats and letting it go two pages. In my experience, there are few things that end up wasting more rehearsal time, or leading to more train wrecks on gigs, than overly-complicated road maps.
In your case, instead of the two-measure passage with repeat signs, using an actual two-measure repeat simplifies this greatly. This is possible with a bit of hackery in current versions of MuseScore; 4.0 will support it directly. But actually, if I were playing this in a salsa band, I'd actually prefer to see just slash notation and the word "simile". Either of these might make it take two pages, but it would be much more comfortable to read.
In reply to Can you post links to the… by Marc Sabatella
( I can't recall it having come up more than two or three times in the past ten year.)
It was definitely more than 3 times, and it was after a long search that I discovered them while looking for a solution. But when I have a little extra time again, I'll do that search with all the possible variations, and I will note down any person or thread dealing with that problem.
(I definitely would not recommend doing this for your this chart. It makes it way too complicated to read, way too easy to get lost in all the repeats and counting.)
I agree with you, but the current keyboard player that I'm using has found it more practical if I use less pages -- I think it's because she's using a tablet that only shows 1 page at a time.
(In your case, instead of the two-measure passage with repeat signs, using an actual two-measure repeat simplifies this greatly.)
In the past I used to create my own 2-measure repeats, but each time the formatting changed, I had to redo them, so it wasn't practical back then. But I do look forward to 4.0 if it's going to have this solved.
(if I were playing this in a salsa band, I'd actually prefer to see just slash notation and the word "simile".)
I agree and that's how I used to do it, until I discovered that the "playback" could actually also record the arrangements exactly as written and export them. With "simile" the playback recording wouldn't have the chart played exactly as it should sound, but having the recording exactly the way the arrangement should sound has actually helped us save time at the rehearsals because, by sending the recordings ahead of the rehearsals, the musicians would come to the rehearsals all prepared. And by having the complete charts written out, I won't need to depend now only on musicians who actually know the styles -- I can use any good reader now (or even a non-reader who has good ears). So, it was worth the extra trouble.
In reply to ( I can't recall it having… by rcamelia
> "In the past I used to create my own 2-measure repeats, but each time the formatting changed, I had to redo them, so it wasn't practical back then."
In the current version (3.6.2) you can attach the 2measure repeat symbol directly to the middle barline, which (for me) seems to hold itself together during layout changes. The only tweak needed is if that barline now shifted to the end of the system; in which case a bit of stretch or a line break before work out quite well.
But yes, this is one of those things where waiting for MS4 might be the easier way anyway.
> "With "simile" the playback recording wouldn't have the chart played exactly as it should sound"
You could have both.
If you add the same instrument twice, you can make one the visual one, with slashed and "simile" and write out the notation completely on the other (using copy & paste). Then you make the written-out one invisible and mute the visual instrument.
In reply to > "In the past I used to… by jeetee
Great trick! Thank you.
In reply to ( I can't recall it having… by rcamelia
See How to create a 2-measure repeat sign with playback
In reply to See How to create a 2… by Jojo-Schmitz
Great, thank you, I didn't know that.
But for now, I'll honor my keyboard player's request of trying to keep everything on 1 page while still trying to make it the least confusing as possible. And if I can achieve that while still using the 2-measure repeats, I'll do so.
In reply to ( I can't recall it having… by rcamelia
Tablets definitely introduce that complication. I still question whether the tradeoff will prove worth it, but it will prove an interesting experiment!
As noted above, the current two-bar repeat workaround of attaching the symbol to the barline does hold up well through layout changes.
For playback, consider also just having a separate copy of the score. You might want to do that anyhow just to have a more readable version on paper should your regular keyboard player not be available and you need to provide traditional paper charts instead.
You can still do this with the simile, just have the notes for playback in a separate invisible instrument. I do that all the time for my rhythm section parts.
In reply to Tablets definitely introduce… by Marc Sabatella
One advantage of this whole digital notation technology is that any time I want to create a longer version, "cut and paste" will make it easy to do so.
So far I've had only one time where I had to use a keyboard player substitute and I did ask him if he was okay with having everything on one page, and he said yes and did a good job, even though he used the paper charts. So that's what I will do: I'll just ask them if they'll prefer a longer chart with less DS's and I'll create one since I won't need to write new material to do so.
And my idea of writing everything out did work again because even though he was unfamiliar with the styles he read everything perfectly. (And luckily he also had good timing which is where good readers sometimes are lacking.)
Concerning the future of the material of the charts, I've heard that there are already ("orchestral"?) tablets that can show more than 1 page. If they are or will become affordable, I believe that that will be the future, because I can already see it being more practical, especially for outdoor gigs.
And thanks for all your help, I do appreciate it.
Roderick Camelia
In reply to I used the word jazz, but I… by rcamelia
Exactly as mentioned before, since your jump is identical (just a D.S., given the coda is immediately following) all that is required is to add multiple hidden D.S. at the same position.
In reply to Exactly as mentioned before,… by jeetee
Thank you for the suggestion, and I do have in mind to try that. I have already given it a try, but I think that the reason it didn't work was because I had put "D.S. al Coda" several times and so it would go to the coda after each second time. But you're saying to put only "D.S." so hopefully that will solve it. I'll be given it a try. (In the meantime I've just recorded and exported it with the D.S. once and told the musicians that it should be D.S. 4 times.)
I've the same problem!
I've the same problem!
I'm one of the people who make templates for the OpenScore Lieder Corpus. We put 19th century Lieder into MuseScore and very often see a D.S. or D.C. used for multiple verses in a song. These are considered part of classical music and we have pieces written by the most famous composers from this era. I tell you this so I can explain what we do. We replace these D.C. and D.S. texts with repeats to the proper place to indicate how many times the verses are to be played. I missed about the first 400 of the 800 songs we have entered to this point so there may be some older copies we did that I'm not familiar with, but this has never posed a problem in clarifying for both MuseScore and the user how to properly repeat verses. We did have one score I know of that used a combination of repeats and a D.C. al Coda but we did not need to deviate from what is considered standard repeat patterns.
Having explained all of that, I would be in favor of allowing the user to change any bar lines into any bar line style. What this would do is allow the user to put a repeat bar lines with a designated number of repetitions into measure properties, but change the line to another style such as final barline, single barline or any other type appropriate for the D.C. or D.S. Yes this would be a workaround, but it would use the current functionality for the purpose of allowing you to use D.C. and D.S. as you wish.
In reply to I'm one of the people who… by mike320
Yes, having barlines function as multiple repeat barlines while still showing as normal barlines could be a solution (if I'm understanding your suggestion correctly).
R. Camelia
In reply to Yes, having barlines… by rcamelia
You understand correctly.