Wrong number of tablature staff lines after changing "plucked" Instrument
If I change a “uke + tab” configuration to Guitar—making the upper clef a guitar 8vb staff—MuseScore fails to update the number of strings property for the tablature staff.
• New Score>Treble Clef (note that Piano Instrument is set)
Use the following steps to configure Ukulele + Tablature:
• Staff/Part Properties>choose Ukulele
• Open Instrument panel
• Select Staff 1 (in the right hand column) making sure to select Staff 1, not the Uke instrument
• select Ukulele (Tablature) in the left "Instrument picker" column
• Click “Add linked staff”
• select a Tablature style
• click OK
Then attempt to convert this configuration to an upper Guitar staff linked to a guitar tablature staff (same as the "Guitar + Tablature" template: )
• Staff/Part Properties>Instrument>Classical Guitar
• select all and lower the pitch one octave, for 8vb notation
Results:
a) EXPECTED result occurred: The upper staff is now a guitar 8vb treble clef staff
b) UNEXPECTED result: The linked tablature staff remained a 4 line tablature staff BUT with String Data for the complete guitar tuning. Apparently MuseScore forgot to set the Lines property to 6, to match the number of strings for Guitar—doing so manually rectifies the situation. Can anyone confirm this?
Not knowing this option (for about a year) I proceeded in the following manner, deleting the uke TAB staff and adding a new linked Guitar TAB staff:
• Open Instrument panel
• Select Staff 2 (in the right hand column)
• Click Remove from Score
• Select Staff 1 (in the right hand column)
• select Classical Guitar (Tablature) in the left column
• Click “Add linked staff”
• select a Tablature style
Seems like needless extra work.
Workarounds:
a) Set the Staff Properties>>Lines = 6 (or the number of strings on the plucked instrument you chose.)
b) Don’t try to reconfigure tablature from one instrument to another. Copy the material and paste into a document that has the desired TAB configuration.
Comments
Not unexpected to me. The number of staff lines is a property of the tab staff, not one of the regular one
In reply to Not unexpected to me. The… by Jojo-Schmitz
Jojo wrote >> The number of staff lines is a property of the tab staff, not one of the regular one
Right, I understood that.
I guess my assumption was guided by some reverse logic.
In the Instrument panel, when preparing to add a linked tablature staff, if I selected an Ukulele staff or Piano staff (or anything but a Guitar) I can't generate tablature.
• New score>Treble Clef (leave the Instrument type set to "Piano")
• Open the Instrument panel
• Select Staff 1 (in the right hand column)
• select Classical Guitar (Tablature) in the left column
• Click “Add linked staff” (note that MuseScore assigns a bass clef*)
• Click the Staff Type menu (notice that the normal tablature styles don't appear in the menu)
• choose the only tablature option: Custom Tablature
• Press OK
Odd result: The linked staff is a normal five line bass clef staff. No tablature in sight, even though twice (in steps 4 and 7) I chose an option containing the word tablature.
My casual conclusion—and I would like to be wrong about this—is that when I attempt to add a linked tablature staff, MuseScore successfully adds a tablature staff ONLY if the Instrument (say ukulele) is paired with an Ukulele (Tablature) staff. In other words, MuseScore requires that sort of uke-to-uke parity, or the user gets no tablature.
Since MuseScore requires this type of tablature parity in the Instrument panel then, by reverse logic, when I change the Instrument of the normal staff from Ukulele to Guitar, why doesn't MuseScore automatically change the number of strings on the linked tablature staff (in this case, from four to six)?
• As mentioned in the original post, MuseScore chooses to set the tablature stave's String Data to that of the Guitar Instrument, (which has six strings) but it leaves the TAB staff with just four lines.
• Why not update the Staff Properties>>Lines as well? (If it's preferred that MuseScore not impose a particular result in ambiguous situations (and that's generally a good call) why no poll the user through a dialog?)
=====
* In contrast, when adding a linked Classical Guitar (tablature) staff to a Guitar Instrument the resulting clef is 8vb ... and there are many tablature styles available in the Staff Type menu.
Much of this has seemed peculiar to me for about a year.
scorster
In reply to Jojo wrote >> The number of… by scorster
You'd need to change the tablature staff too from Uke to Guitar.
In reply to You'd need to change the… by Jojo-Schmitz
" In contrast, when adding a linked Classical Guitar (tablature) staff to a Guitar Instrument the resulting clef is 8vb ... and there are many tablature styles available in the Staff Type menu. Much of this has seemed peculiar to me for about a year."
About a year?
You should know, but I think I've already said it (in other threads), that absolutely everything concerning the functionality of Tablatures (and other staves, linked or not) has been implemented already five years ago!
And that apart from the more recent addition of the extra bass input feature (for lutes and affiliates), nothing has been added and changed.
Moreover, and here I am really repeating myself, I am sure (!) : the person who implemented this part of the program is no longer active since the same period (five years), and that no other developer, sufficiently knowledgeable and interested, has taken over.
Apart from the correction of a couple of unwanted effects due to the correction of auxiliary functions, it is the total status quo since 5 years. And considering the direction version 4 is taking (with the emphasis on the audio part), I'm afraid it won't change.
In a nutshell: all behaviors you see now and in other threads are not bugs (with an exception or two that I would have missed). They are simply features that were implemented that way, on purpose, and at a certain time (and that was a long time ago!)
You have to understand the mechanism, the advantages and the limitations, and learn to deal with them :)
In reply to "About a year" ? You should… by cadiz1
Cadiz1 wrote >> ...absolutely everything concerning the functionality of Tablatures (and other staves, linked or not) has been implemented already five years ago!
I'll clarify.
I was attempting to say that I've used MuseScore for just one year, and over that year I've found working in tablature a wonderful experience EXCEPT for Tablature setup—which still strikes me as peculiar, in many ways.
You stated that the current situation is "on purpose." I'm not saying that bad design is necessarily unintentional. Usually it's quite intentional (and not a bug) but yields an unpleasant reality, the likes of which Tantacrul is now helping to unravel. (BTW, I too fear that tablature will not get an upgrade in MuseScore v4.0.)
Now, for the record, I have learned to deal with oddities. For instance, in the original post (here) I offer two workarounds.
I'm not stuck. I'm merely shining a light into various dark mysterious janky corners so they are illuminated and not forgotten. Of course tradition/precedence and development have much inertia, partly due to the magnitude of rectifying work required, but primarily because they are fossilized into a cultural mindset.
One evening, just before a delicious holiday dinner, a little girl asked her dad why he always cut off the ends of the ham before baking it. He replied, “I don’t know! That’s the way my mom always did it. I’ll ask next time I see her.” On his next visit with his mother he presented the question. His mother replied, “Well I don’t know. I’ll ask my mom.” Finally grandma asked great grandma, the answer came to light. Great grandma exclaimed, “Oh I always cut the ends off the ham because I never had a pan big enough!”
scorster
In reply to Cadiz1 wrote >> * absolutely… by scorster
What you call oddities, mysterious janky corners, are not really for me (maybe because I use MuseScore since version 1.3, and all its evolutions, and you, during that time, maybe were using one or more other softwares with learned and different behaviors). Anyway, IMHO, there are other more important functions in the order of priorities. And they are not hidden or forgotten, or lost in the dark. They are listed here: #270551: [EPIC] Tablature issues
(And not all of them have been clearly listed yet. )
You talk about tradition, precedence, inertia: I answer you and say again in a more pragmatic and tangible way: no developer, I repeat, no developer since five years has taken over from the person who implemented the Tablature section.
I'm not making it up, it's reality. It's not a question of tradition, it's a pure and simple status quo that has settled over the years due to the lack of manpower (of a knowledgeable, interested and available developer) to make this part of the program evolve and improve it
In reply to What you call oddities,… by cadiz1
Hi cadiz1,
I can fly through the various tablature set up steps (probably like you.) Nevertheless, despite my facility and understanding each time I'm still somewhat incredulous about what I see—and unfortunately that diminishes my desire to explore the nuances and further discuss ... but not as much as cultural inertia.
Regarding you comment "more important functions in the order of priorities" I was not attempting to triage. Just reporting what I see.
MuseScore's tablature is remarkably good for a system developed five years ago and left in stone. Its glaring error is tablature setup—which is the front door (and perhaps the first encounter) that many must endure.
And yes, I have years of experience with a half dozen other notation apps with tablature. And in those apps basic setup is relatively simple and logical.
BTW, regarding MuseScore v4 and it's focus on GUI/UX, I think simplifying tablature setup falls in that category.
In reply to Hi cadiz1, I can fly through… by scorster
"but not as much as cultural inertia"
Cultural inertia? Please, specify your thoughts.
In reply to "but not as much as cultural… by cadiz1
... if you’re feeling resistance to change within your organization, it’s not just in your head. Cultural inertia can make culture change particularly hard in older organizations because both good behaviors and bad behaviors have been reinforced over time. from cultureiq.com
From elsewhere:
The theory of cultural inertia contends that cultures and societies often follow many of the same reactions to change as do inanimate objects.
In reply to Hi cadiz1, I can fly through… by scorster
Again though, there is no cultural inertia on Tablature Development; simply a lack of a knowledgeable contributor.
In reply to You'd need to change the… by Jojo-Schmitz
Jojo-Schmitz wrote >> You'd need to change the tablature staff too from Uke to Guitar.
Hi Jojo,
Your suggestion indeed corrects the string/Line number issue, but with some collateral damage.
Setting Staff/Part>>Properties>>Lines = 6—i.e.the workaround stated in my original post—is better for my needs and workflow.
If I set the tablature staff to Classical Guitar (Tablature) or Acoustic Guitar (Tablature), as you recommend, MuseScore wallops the staff with unwanted style changes such as, font face, font size ... in fact I think almost every property in Staff/Part Properies>>Advanced gets set to the default values.
In contrast, if I surgically change Lines = 6 MuseScore leaves the other settings unchanged, which saves me the work of restoring them.
Which raises a question:
• Is it possible to create Tablature style, in other words, a list of properties (with or without String Data) that I can apply to any tablature staff?
Thanks!
scorster