Problem adding text for multimeasure rests

• Oct 29, 2021 - 13:52

I'm running MuseScore 3.6.2. Here's the issue: sometimes I need to add a text note under a multimeasure rest (using the M key). So I hit M, then select the multimeasure rest, hit Ctrl+T, place the text right where I need it (for instance, under the stave, in the middle of the rest), format it the way I want (for instance, make it bold). I save the score, reopen it, and the text note is right at its default location and all the formatting is gone. Tbh, I'm sick and tired of fighting with this defaulting issue because I can't always remember to reformat the text every time I reopen the score, plus reformatting takes time. I even tried turning off the autoplacement feature for the text. No luck. Actually, I was able to make my edits persist once, but I have no idea why that one instance of text preserved my edits because all other instances in the same score defaulted to their original settings. Please, pretty please check if the issue can be fixed. Things like slurs or pins forgetting my adjustments is taxing enough already. Now stave text too? Please.


In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

I've just tried creating a new score with but a few measures - 5 measures of rest and two filled with notes. And the issue can't be reproduced, the formatting holds. However in a more complex score that I've created in September the issue is present. I've uploaded part of the score below.

Formatting should never be lost, and indeed, I can't reproduce these problems. But there are know isolated corner cases where they have been seen. In order to investigate, we'd need you to attach the specific score with the problem, and provide precise steps to reproduce the problem. Most likely it's something very specific to how your score is created that is triggering the problem, and hopefully once we see it, we can show you how to solve it in your score, and then see about fixing it so it doesn't happen again.

Same with any other issues you are having with slurs or whatever else - the first step to our solving an issue is, we need it to be reported with sample score and precise steps to reproduce the problem.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Then what could be happening in this score? The text that appears as plain text above the stave has been formatted as bold text and placed below the stave, right under the multimeasure rest number. I've done it several times, and every time I load the score, the formatting is gone.

Attachment Size
Test.mscz 27.95 KB

In reply to by Akemu

Hmm, I can confirm the problem with this score in particular. But it works fine in my own tests with my own scores. Not sure why. If I delete your text then re-add it, it remembers the formatting but not the position. My guess it that somehow something has gone wrong with the links between the mmrests and the underlying measures. Not sure how, though. Meanwhile, workaround for this particular score seems to be to make the adjustment with mmrests off, as it's that version that seems to "win" if the elements are out of sync.

Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions. I don't know why it happens either. I've tested the suggestion that it may be related to hidden staves, so I deleted the text and added it with all staves shown. No luck, the text still defaulted back to its position and formatting. I even tried changing the style to mmrest range number, but after loading the score I saw the text back in its default position - it even changed the style back. I'm confused. I thought the issue may have been related to the latest major overhaul, however the score was created after that. I'll try reinstalling the software and creating a new score transferring the notes to that new score, but playing with mmrests from scratch.

In reply to by Akemu

Yes. There is a separate copy of the text for the mmrest versus the regular measure. Normally they should be linked in a way that works as expected, but something seems to have gone wrong here and I’m. It sure what. But if you make the change on the regular measure, it seems that change gets honored in the mmrest as well after reload.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I have reinstalled the program and tried your workaround. Yes, if you enter and format your text while in the regular measure mode, the program does respect your formatting and the vertical offset, but not the horizontal one, though.

Well, at least I don't have to worry about the text jumping up and down all over the place. That's a start, I guess. Thanks.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

No. I can't adjust it horizontally when mmrests are off because I don't know how long the mmrest measure will be, for it depends on a system density and may vary. In fact, I've just tried adjusting it horizontally while mmrests were off (using the values of X that I needed when the rests would be on). The moment I press the M button, all horizontal changes are back to zero. But here's an interesting part - when I closed the file and reopened it, it somehow honoured the saved values, even the horizontal ones. Yet before I closed the file, horizontal values appeared to have been lost (at least visually). I believe there seems to be a discrepancy between what you see and what the program saves.

Actually, I've seen this behaviour before. I remember having trouble stuffing all systems on a page. I'd compress all measures, and they would appear to fit the page. Then I'd hit Save, and the systems would unwind again as if I had not just compressed them. But then I'd close the file and reopen it, and all systems would fit on a single page. I've seen something like that with line break symbols. Sometimes, when I add them, the systems that appeared to have fit the page would all of a sudden spill to a new page. But when I reopened the file, they would look normal, and the page count remained the same. All that leads me to believe there may be a visual discrepancy issue here. Not exactly a WYSIWYG behaviour.

Anyhow, so far the workaround seems to be this:
- turn off mmrests,
- delete the old text,
- select the first measure and add the new text,
- format it and place it where you want it,
- save all changes,
- turn mmrests on and, regardless of any apparent changes to your offset settings, hit Save,
- close and reopen the file to make sure that your offset setting have been honoured.

In reply to by Akemu

Yes, as I said - the weird issue in this particular score seems to be such that the offsets from the underlying measures get applied to the mmrest measures after save / reload.

As for how to actually do the positioning, I guess that depends on exactly what this text is supposed to represent and why it needs to be positioned in a non-standard location to begin with, but worst case scenario, you use a little trial and error (quickly toggle M to see the effect). in your score it wasn't obvious that the default position wasn't perfect already. So if you describe more about what it's supposed to represent any you want it somewhere else and can describe in broad terms what that somewhere else should entail, we can advise better. Overall, though, I'd say if it require more than a slight adjustment, probably it should have simply been attached to a different element or had a different 8style* associated with it, rather than relying on eyeballing manually adjustments (eg, changing alignment from left to right, or changing placement from above to below - perhaps by applying an actual custom text style).

So again, the more info you give us on the goal here, the better we can help.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Yes, thank you for your helpful comments. The text should point to the instrument that is supposed to be played throughout those empty measures. It's a choral score, and a choir has no need for the entire score with all the instrumental parts. They only need the singable parts - no distraction and less printing. But they still need to be in sync with the instrument section in terms of measure count, so I have to insert those empty measures and indicate their purpose. If it were up to me, I wouldn't bother adding any text because usually we sing to a piano, and we all know it, but our conductor is rather pedantic, so she insists on mentioning the instruments under every mmrest. Hope you can see the purpose now. I'm explaining it as best I can because English is not my native language.

In reply to by Akemu

I wouldn't have guessed on the language - you write well :-)

So, I get the desire to have the text, but why does it need to be positioned manually? If you don't wish it above the staff because it collides with the number, why not just place it below the staff as a style setting? For instance, pick one of the User styles, set it to placement below, then every time you add one, it's below the staff by default, no further adjustment of any kind needed.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you for your kind words and your advice on using custom style settings. It does indeed work, although I still can't place the text in the middle of the measure because I can't know how wide the resulting measure will be. If only there was a way of specifying the width of an mmrest measure, then I could make the hor. offset part of a style as well, but I can only set the minimum width. Well, at least now text notes won't mess up my scores even if I forget to readjust them after reopening a file. Having it in the middle is more about my obsession with symmetry than about the utilitarian function of such text notes. So thank you again for your time and effort.

In reply to by Akemu

Symmetry is good, but readability and adherence to reader expectations is much much much better. The middle of a measure - or a multimeasure rest - is simply not a place where people would normally expect to see information that applies throughout. By convention, this type of information is pretty much universally placed at the beginning of the measure, whereas it's a rehearsal mark, tempo, chord symbol. It's essentially unheard of in published music to center text like this, which is why there is current;y no direct supported way of doing it. So, my strong recommendation is, don't. It saves you work and makes your music notation more standard and easier to read.

In reply to by Jm6stringer

I believe I'm OCD enough for the two of us. She's more about her pet peeves. I'm more about being consistent and sticking to more convenient notation practices. With a bit of back and forth, we manage to find a common ground. But anyway, I wouldn't want to clutter the support thread with my personal comments, so have a good one and may music be with you.

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