Normalized instrument naming
Hi,
I wonder if there's a work on normalization for instruments naming?
I've noted some issues:
- There is no simple way to use Musescore in french but have the instruments naming normalized in italian (which is the de facto standard in classical music) or even in english (which is the one for other musics).
- In french, it's very badly normalized (peculiarly for the abbreviations)
- You cannot tell simply Musescore to add abbreviations on the score but not on the parts (globally)
I've seen that the situation is studied for Musescore4, but it'll be nice to have those issues solved too.
Thanks to all
Comments
It could be also worth creating a declination for every transposing instrument, ie the Trumpet, for example, has a total of 12 tones (including ancient music), the same for cornet, horn, clarinet, etc.
All these instruments use the same MIDI bank, I think.
It would be very much simple to have only one entry for each, and adjust the default tonality in the preferences (C trumpet for France, B flat for the rest of world, E flat for concertos and so on).
In reply to It could be also worth… by bersyl91
You probably realize this, but that much is already doable via Staff/Part Properties. Doing it directly in the Instruments window could be interesting indeed. But, there is a question of where to draw the line - one could make similar arguments for moving any other staff/part properties there. Maybe the real answer is, have a button there to open that dialog directly from instruments?
In reply to You probably realize this,… by Marc Sabatella
Hi Marc,
Yes, of course! But I feel the instruments panel very (and in fact too much) large with all those declinations of every tonality of everyone.
Another usage for this will be to be able to create parts for different tonalities of the same instrument.
For examples:
- the Haydn concerto for trumpet is traditionaly edited for 3 different trumpets: C, Bflat and Eflat.
- the Euphonium in France is in Bflat read in treble clef but elsewhere it's in C in bass clef.
- some students are not already able to read - say - bass clef and insist to reading in treble clef.
All this leads currently to create a distinct part and to copy/paste from the source part.
A somewhat elegant way would be to:
- select only one instrument (in C, or in Bflat for example)
- check various tonalities for its part (C, Bfalt, high Bflat, E and Eflat) and leave MS generate separate parts for all these tonalities.
There is another gain in this approach: any modification of one part benefits to all tonalities.
In reply to Hi Marc, Yes, of course! But… by bersyl91
Yes, being able to easily generate multiple transpositions of the same basic part would also be very useful in jazz, where we typically write out a lead sheet but want Bb, Eb, and bass clef versions as well. Definitely something I hope to see someday.
Do check out the alpha release (a "private" alpha for now, but open to anyone who has or doesn't mind creating a GitHub account) and see if you have more specific suggestions once you see the changes already in place. The instruments window has been completely redesigned, but everyone involved seems to recognize there is still room for improvement, and some of that could still happen before release.
In reply to Do check out the alpha… by Marc Sabatella
Well, I do own a GitHub account but I'm not very much used to it.
I was not able to find the alpha release -- only the project page (https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/projects/41).
In the Releases page (https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/releases) I find only V3 releases...
In reply to Well, I do own a GitHub… by bersyl91
To find the alpha release, see the announcement from last week - https://musescore.org/en/node/330829
Well, we all work differently. When I write for orchestra I don't usually use a template. I add Instruments individually to get just the ones that I want. As a result, If I want instrument names in Italian (though it is hardly de facto) it is doable. I change MuseSore to Italian, create my score from instruments (not templates), save the score, change language back to mine, and open the score to find the score is in Italian. I would have to do note entry before changing language back just to have score text in Italian also. But you get my point. More trouble than it's worth? Just depends on how badly I need Italian. And not difficult.
I realize that your second post is only an example. But it is an entirely inaccurate one.
In reply to Well, we all work… by bobjp
Hi bobjp,
Of course this is doable, but I feel it very complicated.
Another problem is that everything is not completely compatible and I often get scores with instruments apparently corrects but MIDI mapping is completely broken.
Saying that to you, I wonder if an elegant way couldn't be to have a sort of "central" language (italian, german or english I think -- preferably italian) to name the parts internally and an "visual" language to name them according to everyone's preferences?
With this, all scores become instantly stable in terms of MIDI mappings and you're no more stuck with naming conventions of the producer of the score and you read it instantly with your own preferences.
What do you think of this idea?
In reply to Hi bobjp, Of course this is… by bersyl91
I have no idea about midi mapping. Nor do I have any use for Italian as a central language.
But what would make sense to me would be the ability to view the score in whatever language I might want. I.E. Download a score and open it. Then have a translate button to change it to the language of choice. I'm not sure how to work creating a new score would work.
You say the instruments window has too many instruments. That's why there are three levels of complexity to it. If I want that uncommon Eb trumpet, I know where to get it. It sounds to me like you want MuseScore to create several trumpet parts that may not be in the score you downloaded. I'm not sure how that would work. As it is, if the score only has a Bb part, all you have to do is add the other keys you want. Then select the first measure of the Bb part, CTRL+SHIFT+END, then copy and paste into the other parts you created. Either way you have to add instruments either before you open the file or after.
To be fair I don't use MuseScore to download from or upload to .com. I use it strictly for my own composition purposes. So my needs are quite different from yours. I'm only trying to understand your needs.
In reply to I had no idea about midi… by bobjp
Hi,
Long time since your message, sorry.
I think you're right for the use but perhaps could MS simplify a bit.
For the trumpets you name, if you could, for example, add a "trumpet" part, then if necessary change the tonality if the default isn't the one you want.
Ideally, you could personalize the preferred tonality (in France, for example, the default classic trumpet is the C one, not the Bb one).
For the MIDI mapping, it's another point which could be addressed by splitting the instrument designation from the MIDI instrument or by attaching the mapping to the "central" language (if any).
And for the language, it's a third point which has to be transparent for the average user (which doesn't want to know the intrinsics of MS): when you download a say japanes score (I don't read japanese at all), it'll be very nice to have all instrument names automatically showed in your preferred score language (italian for me, perhaps english for you, etc.)
Do we agree on those general principles?
In reply to Hi, Long time since your… by bersyl91
Long time indeed.
Seems to me that what the default trumpet should be is very much dependent on the music you are writing. Even in America, the standard orchestra trumpet is in C. But a player will also have with him a Bb, D, and maybe an Eb. They might play one or the other regardless of how the part is marked.
As far as I know, the default studio or jazz band trumpet part is still Bb. As is most concert band music. And then there is brass ensemble music where all bets are off.
I think it has already been stated that Templates can be set up just the way you want.
So much score terminology is already in Italian. That's part of why an orchestra in the US can read something printed in Germany. Instrument names can differ, but we know what most mean.
I can't speak to scores in Japanese. I suppose it would be nice for that score to appear in your language of choice. Google can translate forum posts but I can't imagine what would have to happen for MuseScore to be able to translate on the spot. In my admittedly narrow view, there are so many other vastly more important things that need work. But that's just me.
I agree that there are things that could be standardized and made more simple. But, I'm old enough to have been writing before computers. Notation software is still a bit of a miracle to me.