Hairpin plays the opposite of what's written

• Oct 24, 2023 - 17:54

Apparently this hairpin has a mind of its own. Instead of crescendoing to then fall subito to p, it acts like a diminuendo to p, which is not what is written.
hairpin example.png

OS: Windows 10 Version 2009 or later, Arch.: x86_64, MuseScore version (64-bit): 4.1.1-232051303, revision: 691f32f


In reply to by FBXOPWKDOIR2

As a real player, I'm not sure I would have an idea what to play here. A computer would have no chance.
Personally, I think it better and safer to write just what you want to happen.
You start ff and get louder. How loud? fff? ffff? Write it in and there is no question.

If you want to notate a p dynamic after a crescendo from ff, I would suggest notating it as subito p. At least that way the human player would have an idea what is expected.

In reply to by DanielR

Thanks, but performers have already been playing it for at least 90 years without a subito written there.
It is implied by the music. What I find funny is that version 3.6.2 can reproduce this perfectly without a workaround as discussed. It would seem to me that something broke (or more accurately they broke something) in version 4.1.1.
Shostakovich - Sonata Nr. 1 Op. 12 (Edition Peters)
Shostakovich Sonata No 1 Op 12 bar 16-17.png
The dynamic in the parenthesis are mine to clarify.

I think you must notice the beginning and the ending of your harpin . The beginning is good, but there is no ending . Try to shorten the harpin until the E, and add a "fff" on the last F , so you get a crescendo for the first measure . Like it's noting , it is not possible

In reply to by FBXOPWKDOIR2

Sorry but nothing has been proved. Just because some publisher did such and such, does not make it so. Just because MU3 did something might just be that it was a bug in MU3. You might get away with it in an orchestral score. Why? Because it is intended to be directed and the director will decide how loud to get, and when. And when and how to perform the p. Without the director the marks in the score are meaningless. Except as a heads-up to musicians that something is going to happen. And the director might have something totally different in mind. Gasp. As an example, there are a number of different recordings that treat the opening 4 notes of the 5th symphony vastly different.

In reply to by bobjp

I mean, most people that I know of would play a crescendo from a loud dynamic followed by piano as being crescendo and then subito piano, suddenly quiet. I see this in Beethoven quite a bit, this crescendo and then piano that is intended to be subito. Eroica symphony for example, this crescendo here is generally played as a crescendo to forte and then subito piano in my experience. It's between 2 piano dynamics in this case, so again, a case where MuseScore's hairpin behavior is not the same as what the orchestra does or what the composer intended.

Crescendo between 2 piano dynamics in Eroica:
Eroica Crescendo.png

In reply to by Caters

So, once again, this music has zero to do with MuseScore. This is intended for real players led by a director. Of course MuseScore, or most any notation software I know of, has no idea what do with this. And do we know how many of these markings where by the composer or some editor? No we don't.

Even though things have been played a certain way for some time, no one really knows how this symphony was originally performed. Instruments were much different. No loud steel strings. Orchestras tended to be smaller. Playing techniques were different. For example, vibrato was not a thing. And much more.

Notation software needs to be told just about everything.

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