New Computer Build Recommendations
Not sure if this is the correct forum for this question, but here goes:
My 8-year old desktop is starting to show signs of age, so I'm starting the planning process for a new build. One of the programs I'll need to run smoothly is (y'all guessed it) MuseScore. My current system is laggy running MuseScore4, especially with playback, which often clips/stutters. I've troubleshot the issues - and the tips I've read here on the forums have made things better if not perfect - but we're still talking about an obsolete system here, so time to upgrade!
While I realize that MuseScore will run on any new computer, I'm asking any Developers in the audience which sorts of hardware they would consider for a MuseScore-centric build of their own. A quick single-thread CPU or is multi-core the way to go? How about a minimum level of graphics card to handle my large classical score scrolling needs? Which audio chipset(s) works best for sound playback processing, or is that handled more by the CPU? Are there other considerations I'm not taking into account? Do my questions even make sense in terms of modern parts? I haven't researched hardware in about 8 years now, after all.
All input is appreciated, but I don't wish to buy a rig that would make my 13YO gamer son jealous! Just looking for a solid set of moderate hardware recommendations which I can then figure out how to "future proof" to get 8 years out of the new system. Also I run Linux Mint, so NVidia cards can be finicky to get working properly (apparently), but for the sake of my Windows brethren please recommend away!
Thanks in advance! I look forward to the replies!
v/r
Ken S.
Comments
Check https://musescore.org/en/download#System-requirements
Yes. use the specs as a guide. But there is more to it. Not sure how best to set up Linux.
I have an old 10 inch Surface Go that runs MU4 with muse sounds really well. Not as good as my new setup, certainly usable. CPU seems to be more important than GPU.
Thanks for the quick responses!
While the system reqs answered a few questions, they raised others. For example, is there a recommended minimum clock speed for the CPU? Presuming playback is generated through the CPU, what's a good spec to play back a 50 stave score without stuttering? That's got to use more processing power than a quintet, but would playback benefit from having a 12 or 16 core processor? More RAM to accomodate all those sounds?
When I installed a budget graphics card a few years back, the visual aspect of playback got much better, so I'll do the same now, but am willing to upgrade if it makes a difference. No gamer here, so "sufficient, but future-proofed" is what I'm after.
Thanks again!
v/r
Ken S.
In reply to Thanks for the quick… by K Frank Soper
So, was it the new graphics card or the new drivers that came with it, that made the difference. If you post a 50 stave score, I'd be happy to load it into my surface to see what it does. that might answer many of your questions.
In reply to So, was it the new graphics… by bobjp
I went from the motherboard's onboard graphics to a discrete card with much better specs, so most likely the card.
I work mostly chamber music now, so no handy 50 stave specials to upload! That was the old me. Last chart I did that big was in Finale just before I downloaded MuseScore to "give it a whirl." But, I'd like to have the ability to do one should I get called, especially as I have no plans to port Finale/Windows to my new system. I'm sure MuseScore can handle it, but I'd like to ensure my hardware can.
What are the specs of your current system ?
In reply to What are the specs of your… by frfancha
Obsolete! It doesn't make MuseScore's requested minimums. That's why I haven't complained about the sound playback - it's certainly not the developers' fault!
Anyone having difficulty with playback who has a 12 or 16 core CPU? I'm thinking that range would be sufficient future-proofing for the life of the new system, especially at 4+GHz.
I'd go for a second-hand, ex-corporate machine because you get something that likely has high-spec components (they've passed a bunch of quality tests) but at a quarter of the price. Currently I use a Dell Precision Tower 3620 i7-7700K 4.2 Ghz, 32GB DDR4, 512 GB SSD + Quadro P1000, £229 off eBay.
I added a 4TB hard drive (£90) for backup and storing videos and other large files. 27" LG monitor £110, Soulion soundbar £20, Teknet wireless mouse £17 and a very, very old Dell "Quietkey" (a bit of a misnomer) keyboard £1 from local charity recycling shop.
In reply to I'd go for a second-hand, ex… by underquark
I hadn't considered this route. I'll have to start monitoring eBay for something appropriate, especially if I can upgrade the CPU if necessary. That would be a large cost savings!
In reply to I hadn't considered this… by K Frank Soper
If you are trying to future proof, I'm not sure used is the way to go.
Everyone's system is different. It is hard to say what is the most important part that makes MU4 work well. I have spent the last two years, or so, trying to get MU4 to work on low end machines. And I've gotten really close. The main problem is probably under powered CPUs. Not enough cores. I now have what is considered a low end gaming laptop. It runs MU4 just fine.
You mentioned a new GPU helped your older computer. My Laptop has an RTX 205o GPU. I disabled it to see if playback was worse. It was just the same. I tend to think it is the i7 that is the biggest factor.
In reply to If you are trying to future… by bobjp
i would go for a decent mid-range laptop, if you want to keep using it for more than a couple of years. Probably around 1000€/$. (just my idea of course). NVidia cards work just fine in Linux
In reply to i would go for a decent mid… by graffesmusic
I've never been a fan of laptops as my main system, due to their lack of "upgradeability". For many, though, I think your suggestion would work well, especially if you had a dock, or at least an HDMI cable to run a big-ol' monitor like my aged eyes prefer. My father does exactly what you suggest, but he can afford a new MacBook every few years!
If I'm reading Linux forums correctly, most problems with NVidia cards arise with newer cards which don't have proper drivers. Sooner or later, someone comes up with something that works - God bless open source! While I did put one in a friend's Win10 system - and it works great - I'm going to take the path of least resistance with my own build and avoid the potential issue altogether. Unless NVidia has started to issue Linux drivers?? In which case I stand corrected and will absolutely consider them!
In reply to I've never been a fan of… by K Frank Soper
There are the open source NVidia drivers, and NVidia has (proprietary) Linux drivers.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/
https://www.nvidia.com/download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
On a distribution such as Ubuntu, you can just install them from the repository. (if 'proprietary drivers' enabled)
In reply to There is the open source… by graffesmusic
Good to know, thanks!
In reply to I've never been a fan of… by K Frank Soper
I'm not a fan of laptops either. (I don't like their screens or keyboards and I don't like fan noise). It's much cheaper to get good performance from a desktop as the processors don't tend to be the lower powered options that many laptops use, (to make the battery life better).
I'm looking to replace my 13 year old Dell desktop, (which can run MS4 without MuseHub), with a new Dell desktop based on Intel i5-1400, (10 core, cores 1.8 to 4.7 Ghz), and 32 GB RAM. I'll stick with integrated graphics since MS is not particularly demanding in that respect. I'm not a PC gamer so I don't think that I need to go i7.
In reply to I'm not a fan of laptops… by yonah_ag
I have a refurbished laptop that I paid $98 for last year and slapped Bodhi Linux on it. It gets used a few times yearly, either on vacation (so I don't have to squint and read from my phone screen) or for genealogy field trips (it runs the windows programs I use well enough through Wine). Perfect for what I use it for, albeit slow, but too obsolete to run full time.
Come to think of it, I should power it up and let it update. It's been a while!
FWIW, I think your plan is solid as long as MuseScore is the most demanding thing you run, and depending on your planned OS. What OS are you running on that 13yo hardware?
In reply to I have a refurbished laptop… by K Frank Soper
I was running Windows 10 up until yesterday but today the mechanical hard disk died. 😞
It has been having trouble booting for a while so I having been putting it to sleep rather than shutting it down. It was a Dell desktop Intel Core Duo (2.99 Ghz), 4GB RAM and a 512 GB 7200 rpm disk, integrated graphics and sound.
New desktop will be Dell again and will be Windows 11. I plan to run MS4 with MuseHub, MS3, Microsoft Visual Studio, (for MuseScore development), and a web browser.
In reply to I was running Windows 10 up… by yonah_ag
yonah_ag.
As you may know, most HDD's fail not because of mechanical problems. But because their programing that allows the OS to read them, gets messed up. If you have important files on that drive, you can still access them. There is an inexpensive usb adaptor that (after you remove the drive) connects it to another computer. Then you read it like it was a flash drive. Pretty simple really.
In reply to yonah_ag. As you may know,… by bobjp
I didn't know that. I assumed that it was a mechanical fault. After about 8 tries, (no disk light coming on), it did boot up again but then the computer just froze after about 10 minutes and the disk light was off.
Thanks for the heads-up on data recovery. I keep all my data backed up on the cloud, (with important files on 2 different services), but I'll keep the disk until my new computer has all my files.
Since the drive may still be readable I think that it's best if I find a way to render it completely unreadable; maybe I can open it up and trash the disk somehow.
In reply to If you are trying to future… by bobjp
As long as the computer in question is built from "server grade" components, for lack of a better term, it's something I'd consider. Definitely wouldn't consider something built from cheap parts, or anything which was overclocked, etc.
Last evening I spent some time poking around other parts of the forum to see if I can find anything applicable to my question, and I believe you're absolutely correct that insufficiently cored CPUs are at the root of many issues. Although something I noticed, in a few posts, hinted that an otherwise compliant CPU with a clock speed under 3GHz may add to the struggle - I'd wager that's likely a factor in what you're experiencing with your low end machine work.
Also, FWIW, I've noticed that - subjectively - playback sounded better once I'd invested in a USB DAC rather than the cheapo audio chips on my motherboard. I'd economized on my mobo a bit - I shouldn't have, or I should have invested in a graphics card and external DAC immediately. As I'm happy with my current DAC I plan on using it with my new system, unless onboard motherboard audio has advanced past my current DACs. Subjectively, it sounds a bit cleaner, with a noticeable reduction in static. So again I think you're correct - "it is hard to say what is the most important part that makes MU4 work well".
Speaking of GPUs, one of the other programs I need to use has a minimum chipset spec, so I'm going to have to invest in a midgrade card of some sort in any event. If it helps MuseScore, great! If not, well, I need it anyway, to the detriment of my wallet.
In reply to As long as the computer in… by K Frank Soper
In working with my systems, the number of cores seems to have more to do with it, than speed. my i7 is 10 cores at 1.73 GHz.
And MU4 is changing. last year, using my Focusrite for audio made a bit of a difference. With 4.3.2, it doesn't help.
For years I have built my own computers. There is certainly something to be said for a desktop. You can replace parts as needed. Or update parts one at a time. I have one that I scraped together from all spare parts. Some parts 15 years old. Not all that hard to do.
I prefer a big monitor, also. But I don't really have room any more. Also, I think that in the long run, you spend more money on parts than just buying a new computer. I'm as cheap as they come. But there comes a time.....
And notation software isn't like other software. You have to tune the computer to it. I think a lot of people don't realize that, or think they shouldn't have to. After all, all their other programs run just fine. It reminds me of many years ago when I used to run Flight Simulator. I had to adjust all kinds of things in the OS to be able to get it to work.
In reply to In working with my systems,… by bobjp
I know what you mean! I'd built and OS tweaked my current system to optimally run Finale, with a bit of input from folks who knew more about that sort of thing than I did or do.
Thanks to all for your input and advice! Judging by the info I've received about the other programs I need to run, MuseScore should be the least of my worries, spec-wise, for the new system. Still, I'll probably annoy y'all again about any good OS tweaks to get the sound running perfectly when the time comes, in the appropriate section of the Forum, of course. Now to await cyber-Monday, or at least the good sales around then. Again, my thanks!
v/r
Ken S.