Scroll bar?
Using the mouse to move my long score back to beginning takes a loooonnnnnngggggggg time. Can I have a scroll bar??? I have damage in my wrists so i can't sit here pulling things around with the mouse.
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Comments
See https://musescore.org/en/node/38436#navigator — probably even easier to use than scroll bars would be.
In reply to See by Isaac Weiss
Thanks Zack.
In reply to Thanks Zack. by cssc
You're welcome.
The navigator works, but so do the usual Page Up and Page Down keys (also Home and End), and so does the mouse *wheel*. Also, the Find command (Ctrl+F) to jump to a specific measure, page, or rehearsal mark. Dragging the score is only for small movements; it was never intended to be the way to do large scale navigation!
I personally hate the fact that scrolling works the way it does in MuseScore. its so annoying it literally drives me insane. I can't tell you how many times I have clicked on the score to click on a note or something, accidentally missed the object and caused the canvas to be dragged instead. this is particularly annoying in linear mode where I generally only want to scroll horizontally and not watch my score move up and down and diagonal when I try to scroll without scroll bars.
I wish scroll bars were available, could be optional and drag mode can be disabled, using traditional normal scrolling and NOT the mouse drag method that exists now. It seriously sucks. I hate the in sibelius too and its a big reason why I never bought Sibelius. MuseScore is free, so beggars can't be choosy, but there are a lot of things i like about MuseScore, but this particular thing I most definitely do NOT like.
In reply to I personally hate the fact by Dewdman42
I am not understand what dragging has to do with scrolling. If you are having trouble selecting things, how would adding scroll bars help? Disabling drag of canvas - or making it require Ctrl or some other modifier - is worth considering for sure, but I don't see what it has to do with scroll bars. The two dseem completely unrelated.
I also don't understand how missing an object you are trying to click results in dragging the canvas. Maybe you mean, you are trying to *drag* an element, not just click it? Personally I rarely if ever drag anything. The keybaord and Inspector are both much more precise. So you might consider simply not trying to drag so much.
I suspect you are trying to do things in ways that could be improved and lessen your frustration greatly. I pretty much never experience anything like what you describe.
In reply to I am not understand what by Marc Sabatella
Please allow us to disable the "feature" that allows you to click on the canvas and drag it around. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. When you allow that feature to be turned off, will need to supply scroll bars.
thanks.
In reply to Please allow us to disable by Dewdman42
Why would scroll bars be needed just because we change how dragging works? For one thing, as I said, we probably wouldn't *disable* it, just require Ctrl or some other modifier. But much more importantly, dragging the canvas in no way substitutes for scroll bars. Dragging is for small motions, scroll bars for large ones. Large motions in MuseScore are accomplished with the scroll wheel, with the page up.down keys, with the Navigator, with the Find command, etc - definitely no with dragging. So even if dragging were disabled completely, it would not mean we needed scroll bars. All the things that accomplish what scroll bars normally do would still work just fine.
In reply to Why would scroll bars be by Marc Sabatella
If you believe that you can completely disable the stupid canvas drag "feature" and provide complete scrolling through other means, both large and small movements, then by all means I have nothing against that. Scroll bars are rather industry standard though. Just sayin'....
In reply to If you believe that you can by Dewdman42
Dragging canvas really is a feature (not a "feature"), one used daily by many people. I still don't understand how you find yourself doing this accidentally so often - as I said before, I suspect you may be failing to realize there are better ways of repositioning objects so you may be over-relying on dragging objects. Feel free to start a new thread (since it has nothing to do with scroll bars) and describe more fully what it is you are trying to do that results in canvas drag so often. Chances are there are other better ways of doing whatever it is you are doing that causes you to accidentally the drag the canvas often enough to find it such a nuisance. And people will doubtless be willing to help you find those ways.
But in any case, please do understand that canvas dragging really is a valuable feature for the majority of users. There is no to shout or call it "stupid" just because you personally don't find it useful.
Some of the potential issues with scroll bars have already been described. They are indeed industry standard for certain types of documents that are arranged in certain types of ways, but wouldn't you find it counterintutive to need to scroll *horizontally* to see more of your score? That's one of the reasons I said it would make more sense if we had a vertical scrolling mode.
Anyhow, once again, I can't see any reason to *disable* score dragging. Just perhaps make it require holding Ctrl so it isnt easily done accidentally while trying to drag score objects.
In reply to Dragging canvas really is a by Marc Sabatella
I can't explain it any better. If you don't understand, I think maybe you don't want to understand. The way it works now sucks for me. I absolutely freaking HATE applications that allow you to drag the background canvas around....and that includes MuseScore. At the very least please provide an alternative so that we are not force to work the way you like to work. I'm out of this topic now, I've made my point clear enough.
thanks
In reply to Dragging canvas really is a by Marc Sabatella
And this, YES!!!
Anyhow, once again, I can't see any reason to *disable* score dragging. Just perhaps make it require holding Ctrl so it isnt easily done accidentally while trying to drag score objects.
Something like that is what I mean by "optionally disable" and would work well.
Generally the annoyance is that I want the canvas to be more stable. Even when I want to scroll it, using the drag method is difficult to control as well as using scroll bars, particularly if I just want to scroll in one dimension or the other. Try to drag it to the right or the left in continuous mode, and the the entire score drifts up or down depending on the mouse. Super annoying. Its really not very often that one needs to "nudge" the canvas. Mostly they will need to make larger jumps. If there are key commands to do what scroll bars can do, that's great, but its not immediately obvious what they are or how to do it. That's why apps include scroll bars.
When I'm working on the music, I want the page to be stable as I point and click and move around the score. and if I move it at all, most likely I want to scroll right/left or scroll down the page in the same bar. Sure, every great once in a while could be handy to crtrl-drag the canvas in some way, but mostly as it is it just gets in my way and causes me to have to constantly reposition the canvas back to a usable position.
Seriously, I'm off the topic now...I do think this is related to scroll bars, its all related to scrolling. I don't really want the canvas to default to dragging around as it is now, but I also want to be able to scroll right/left and up/down in an isolated way as is traditionally done with scroll bars in most apps out there. Does there have to be scroll bars hogging up screen space? No. But then the UI rule about it being intuitive and obvious to use becomes broken.
In reply to And this, YES!!! Anyhow, once by Dewdman42
"but I also want to be able to scroll right/left and up/down in"
I have badly understood?
1) Scroll up/down: mouse
2) Scroll right/left: Shift + mouse
And as already said: Page Up and Page Down keys (also Home and End), and Navigator ( in the case of multiple pages: by moving the blue rectangle or by clicking on the location where you want to go, or Ctrl + F)
For my part, I regret only the lack of stability of the score in Edit mode: to edit the frame in photo mode, for example (and many other situations). If you miss the target of the handles, the score moves and you must replace it constantly.
But for navigation, I would not scroll bars (I don't like scroll bars!)
I primarily use a macbookpro with a track pad. is there any other way? I also don't have a num keys pad. Regarding the blue rectangle at the bottom, it's kind of cool but same problem as mentioned before if you want to scroll sideways without the score drifting up or down its difficult and ends up requiring extra effort to finally position the canvas vertically, even though the intention was just to move some bars later or earlier
In reply to I primarily use a macbookpro by Dewdman42
page up/down?
In reply to I primarily use a macbookpro by Dewdman42
Can you scroll with a two-fingered swipe?
In reply to Can you scroll with a by Isaac Weiss
interestingly that works here for up/down, but not for left/right
I would expect page up and down to scroll up or down one page at a time. Do they do anything other then that? How can I scroll up or down in smaller increments? How about horizontal scrolling?
In reply to I would expect page up and by Dewdman42
duplicate
In reply to I would expect page up and by Dewdman42
see https://musescore.org/en/node/36096#score-navigation, page up/down does scroll horizontally
You can alse drag the score for smaller adjustments or drag that blue rectangle in navigator to where you want it to be, inlcudinf finer adjustments
Two finger swipe is the same as click drag and usually results in having to reposition the canvas due to drifting off. For example if I want to scroll two bars to the right, I use the swipe and the whole score drifts up or down a bit and had to be repositioned.
As has been stated earlier this is the general problem with the canvas drag paradigm in general. It sounds like page up and down can be used to jump a whole page at a time up and down, maybe there is a key modifier to go left right a whole page at a time, that's great. It was not obvious to find that though. Scrolling in smaller increments seems to require either the problematic canvas drag which is not able to isolate one axis or the other, or if you have a mouse with a scroll wheel you can do it that way. Maybe some arrow key commands or something could be used when no mouse is available? I still think scroll bars would be good, make it optional if some people don't want to look at scroll bars
In reply to Two finger swipe is the same by Dewdman42
Maybe something like Ctrl-drag could be use for horizontal scrolling and Alt+Drag for vertical?
In reply to Maybe something like by Jojo-Schmitz
I've mentioend a few times lately I have concerns about the exact combinations of key modifiers we use for different click & drag operations. I think we could stand to look at this from top down, making sure we have consistent semantics for Shift, Ctrl, and Alt when combined with click or drag amnd when applied to score elements versus the page as a whole. Eg, shift+drag is "select region via lasso" when you act on the page, but "drag contrained vertically" when applied to a score element, etc. It's kind of a mess right now, really.
I think a separate thread discussing the situation with keybaord modifiers in conjunction with click and especially drag is in order, so I will start it.
EDIT: see https://musescore.org/en/node/63296
In reply to Two finger swipe is the same by Dewdman42
What computer are you on? I've never heard of two finger swipe being the same as drag; it's usually mouse wheel. So two finger swipe by itself should be vertical, add shift to make it horizontal. Maybe it's different on your system, but in any case, there should be a way to scroll horizontally. I believe you mentioned being in continous view and that is why you are so sensitive to vertical motion. Shift+two-finger-swipe should do exactly what you want, at least on most touchpads I have used. Might instead be a scroll zone at the top or bottom of your touchpad. Or maybe for some reaosn horizontal scrolling has been disabled on your device and you need to go to your device settings and enable it?
A horizontal scroll abr in continuous view strikes me as a not bad idea - it doens't have the same issue that page view would have in terms of it feeling "backwards" as to which way you need to scroll. Plus you give up less screen real estate, and in most cases (scores where a system fits on the page) it was wasted space anyhow.
If you are in continuous view, page up/down scroll in the horizontal direction only, one "page" (screenful) at a time. In page view, I am not sure I understand the specific use case for a horizontally-contrained scroll, but there is no keyboard shortcut I know of for this - just shift + mouse wheel, or correponding touch gesture. That seems like it should be, sufficient, though. These are all very standard commands / gestures.
In reply to What computer are you on? by Marc Sabatella
On my macbook pro, two finger swipe is most definitely NOT constrained to vertical in Musescore. You are corrects its not exactly the same as click drag in that the movements are in opposite direction, but the effects are exactly the same in museScore. Two finger swipe does the same thing as clicking and dragging the canvas, another reason why the score keeps getting moved around undesirably. In other apps, such as Safari for example, click drag is definitely different then two finger swipe, in that case click drag is used to draw a box around objects, to highlight stuff, etc. That is a common use for click drag in many many apps. Better not do that in MuseScore though because the score will be scrolled.
Using shift and two finger swipe has no such constraints are you are suggesting..
I agree about Continuous view needing a scroll bar
My laptop doesn't have page up and down. Turns out that using FN-up and FN-down is the same as page up and down. Indeed that does scroll the continuous view left or right a page at a time and that is very helpful information thank you! It was not at all obvious to know to do that, especially since my computer doesn't have a page up or page down button, but even if they did how would I guess that is how to scroll linearly left and right through the music on continuous mode using page up and down?
I also wish that I can move horizontally in continuous mode, in smaller movements, instead of entire page full.
I agree that in page view mode its not as relevant perhaps to scroll horizantally. Or is it?
In reply to On my macbook pro, two finger by Dewdman42
Maybe someone else with a MacBook can comment further on the scroll wheel gesture. I have to assume that if two-finger swipe is not vertical scroll wheel on your computer, some other gesture must be. So it should just be a matter of learning that gesture to get the vertical scroll, then adding Shift or otherwise doing whatever your particular model of computer / OS defines for horizontal scrolling. Whatever the gesture is, it is presumably the same across all applications, so whatever you learn will be useful elsewhere as well.
To a PC user - Windows or Linux - Page Up and Page Down are normal / expected keys, and if I ever had to use a MacBook, one of the first things I'd do is learn those shortcuts. To me these keys are are essential to using a computer as the letter "F" is; I can't imagine not having them or using them. I very rarely use scroll bars in any application; Page Up / Down are all one normally needs. Most applications that present information in a linear fashion - whether horizontal or vertical - use Page Up / Down the exact same way as MuseScore, so if you are accustomed to these keys at all, it seems obvious. People accustomed only to MacBooks are at a disadvantage here, I guess.
Click-drag does indeed normally select a region in most applications. In MuseScore, you need to add Shift, because - believe it or not :-) - most people find the need to drag the canvas very useful and a more common operation than trying to select objects by dragging (since MuseScore provides much better means of selecting things in most cases - the standard Shift+cursor shortcuts, click / Shift+click, etc). But as I mentioned in that other thread I started, I kind of think it's time to revist that decision.
In reply to Maybe someone else with a by Marc Sabatella
careful Marc, I hear a hint of open mindedness coming on. ;-) kidding.
I definitely think the natural inclination is to click and drag a lasso around stuff. Yes once someone works with MuseScore a while maybe they will learn not to do that and make sure to hit the SHIFT key to avoid accidentally dragging the canvas around.
Back to to the mac.....
Fn is a modifier key on mac laptops. it gives secondary functions to the function keys across the top and also many other keys use it as an additional modifier, in particular its used to provide numpad key type of functionality. So on a laptop with no numpad, home is Fn-Left, END is Fn-right, etc. We also have option, shift, control and Command modifiers. sometimes its very hard to keep track of which ones do what and when, but in general Fn is used for the numpad functionality, if you can remember which keys go to what, for example FN-UP for page up and FN-DOWN for page down.
I hardly use page up and down in any apps any more because the two finger swipe is so effective most of the time, but in MuseScore, its uncontrollable and results in the canvas being moved in undesireable ways inadvertantly.
Also I prefer to click in the scroll bar above or below the handle for scrolling one window full at a time. There is a difference. In a word processor or PDF viewer I want to use page up and down to advance one actual formatted page at a time regardless of the current zoom level. Clicking on the scroll bar above or below the handle advances the view by the contents of the current window... PAGE UP AND DOWN are better for advancing through actual formatted pages.
Additionally, when I'm working on something like a musical score, most of the time we will have our hand on the mouse or trackpad, not on the keyboard. If we have to move back and forth between mouse and keyboard in order to scroll, that is a hindrance, not a help, so I don't agree that using keys to scroll around is easier then the scroll bar. if our hand is already on the mouse or trackpad, we will want to use that particular tool to accomplish scrolling. normally if there are scroll bars we can click above or below the handle to jump a window full at a time, or we can grab the handle and move it or we can use the arrows at the end of the scrollbar, all without taking our hand away from the mouse or trackpad. In a typing application such as a word process it makes a little more sense to have keys for doing all of that.
Since MuseScore does not have scrollbars, we are forced to either move our hand to the keyboard and using some of these key commands you have mentioned, and this only seems to support page up and down for the most part, which will be either vertical movements in page ode or horizantal movements in continuous mode, and always jumping a window-full of viewing at a time.
Or if we have a mouse with a wheel, perhaps we can use that in some way to do what normally most apps would provide with a scrollbar. many of us don't have a mouse with a wheel. Or we can use the click-drag method or two finger swipe, but as I said, this method drives me insane since it almost always causes the canvas to be moved out of wack and require yet more work to reposition it since it can't currently be constrained to a single dimension.
In reply to careful Marc, I hear a hint by Dewdman42
FWIW, Page Up / Down on most applications for Windows / Linux scroll by screenful, not by physical page. That's how it works in continuous view in MuseScore as well. Page View is unusual in that it has pages but lays them out horizontally rather than vertically. So the notion of a "screenful" doesn't exactly make sense in the usual way - what you might think of as a "logical" screenful would sometimes mean moving vertically (if there is more to the current page) and other times horizontal (to move to the next page). This is also exactly why scroll bars are not really natural in page view as it exists currently. But as I mentioned ealrier, if MuseScore had a vertical page layout mode, then scroll bars would make more sense to me. And then I would expect Page Up / Down to work in screenfuls, which would always be vertical.
With MuseScore, I probably use Page Up / Down and two-finger swipe about equally. Sorry your computer doens't seem to allow this as easily. Anyone else with a MacBook able to suggest what the correct gesture is to get vertical versus horizontal scrolling?
In reply to FWIW, Page Up / Down on most by Marc Sabatella
my PDF viewer advances an entire page at a time with page up down. That's about the only time I ever use it. You're right in MS Word it does screenful.
You bring up some interesting points though. One reason the two finger swipe is so much easier to use in MS Word is because the pages are one under the next...vertically. There is no horizontal scroll bar unless the page is actually wider then the window. In that way of working, the two finger swipe will be constrained to vertical, because there is nothing to scroll to side to side, most of the time. If the window is smaller than the page size, then swiping goes in both dimensions.
Since MuseScore puts the pages side by side...this causes it to always be in two dimensions.
And of course, in continuous mode, its mostly always going to be in two dimensions also for similar reason.
In reply to my PDF viewer advances an by Dewdman42
All I'm saying is, fix the click drag so that it doesn't cause the score to constantly be moving around when we don't want to to. Maybe you need to rethink the modiers. Maybe you need to rethink what the default behavior should be when someone clicks on the score and drags without a modifier. Maybe you should rethink the industry standard of scroll bars too. There is plenty of room for this application to cater to everyone's work flow. When you talk about bucking the trend and doing it your own way because you think the other way is stupid....ok..you are entitled to your opinion but currently you are forcing some other people that prefer scroll bars or prefer to have a more stable canvas to be annoyed and frustrated unless we change our thinking to work like you do. FWIW. There is no reason you can't address everyone's workflow here.
In reply to All I'm saying is, fix the by Dewdman42
No one said your way is stupid - no one else but you has used that word. I *have* tried to explain why scroll bars in the current page view don't really make sense given that the required motion is sometimes horizontal, sometimes vertical. But that isn't a slam on anyone's way of working - it's a simple fact about how how scroll bars work in a way that would be counterintuitve given how MuseScore presents scores in page view.
I've already said I think it makes sense to consider making it harder to accidentally drag the canvas, and I started a thread on the topic of keyboard modifiers for drag operations. Feel free to weight in there. It's a bigger issue than just that one case; it's important if we make changes that we strive for consistency. I've also already said I wouldn't mind seeing a more vertically oriented mode, in which scroll bvars *would* make sense, and in which Page Up / Down could work in screenfuls.
Sounds liek the real source of your problem is that you are using a mdoel of computer that doesn't appear to support the standard mouse wheel mechanism. That we know of, anyhow. You might consider checking Mac forums to see if somene knows of an equivalent gesture. I'd be surprised if Apple left that feature out of their MacBooks, but maybe they thought everyone would be satisfied with their current two-finger-swipe gesture that combines vertical and horizontal motions. If they *don't* provide such a gesture, you might consider raising the issue with them, as it's a pretty common feature on most other computers, and apparently one important to you.
In reply to FWIW, Page Up / Down on most by Marc Sabatella
I have a Mac book Pro. I love the way MuseScore works currently (I implemented it so I'm a bit biased). It's easy to navigate the score with two fingers and to use the keyboard to enter notes at the same time. I don't use scrollbars on Mac OSX if I can't avoid it. In most applications they are hidden and when showed they are too small to be clicked on. I believe I have a completely different workflow than Dewdman42 since I have mostly the hands on the keyboard for note entry and use the mouse only to click (with my two thumbs). When I need to move the score, using two fingers is perfect and it works in both ways at the same time, which is awesome! Since it's working in MuseScore, I don't use click and drag at all to move the score and I missed the trackpad when I'm on Windows with a standard mouse.
So I respectfully disagree with Dewdman42 and I'm not convinced so far that a scrollbar would solve the issue.
In reply to I have a Mac book Pro. I love by [DELETED] 5
Great and there is plenty of room for us all to disagree and to have our own ways of working, but unfortunately MuseScore caters to YOUR way of working. since you implemented it, that explains a lot.
In reply to Great and there is plenty of by Dewdman42
mouse wheels are not "standard". Macs don't have them. If you are saying your program is not very compatible with macs, that's up to you. And no I am not going to take this up with apple, that's a silly suggestion.
Anyway, for my part if you make it harder to accidentally drag the canvas through better planned modifiers, I for one will be quite a bit happier, regardless of the scroll bar question. I personally would rather see a modifer for dragging the canvas and instead of using SHIFT to lasso stuff, have that be the default click and drag action when clicking on the canvas and lassoing around objects. Then use SHIFT to drag the canvas or whichever modifer makes sense for the way you want to organize modifiers consistently.
But I for one would also like to see the possibility to have scroll bars as well. You will never find that the mac has constrained finger swiping for vertical or horizontal. It just doesn't work that way. For now anyway, we only have two options to scroll the score, the page up down buttons, which go full pages at a time..and only in one direction....or the click drag or finger swipe method, which is two dimensional. You could probably introduce a modifier of some kind that could constrain finger swiping within MuseScore to vertical or horizantal or perhaps just use a modifier like SHIFT which is smart enough to figure out whether you are swiping closer to one or the other and constrain it automatically somehow, just thinking out loud. That could satisfy any complaints about scroll bars IMHO.
In reply to mouse wheels are not by Dewdman42
Wait wait wait—what do you mean "Macs don't have them"? The standard Apple Mouse has a 360-degree scroll ball! Not to mention, many people use third-party mice with Macs, and most of those have scroll wheels. Of course a trackpad doesn't have one, and I suppose the Magic Mouse (which I've never seen in real life) works differently, but anyway it doesn't matter because scrolling in MuseScore supports those as well.
And here's something really interesting I just discovered: holding down Shift and swiping vertically scrolls horizontally.
In general, I think you're just swiping very carelessly—when I swipe horizontally I swipe horizontally, and the score varies hardly a pixel vertically.
In reply to Wait wait wait—what do you by Isaac Weiss
now you're just being difficult. standard macs do not have scroll wheels. That is hardware enhancement. It sounds like MuseScore requires a mouse with a scroll wheel. maybe you should document that.
In reply to now you're just being by Dewdman42
It certainly doesn't *require* a scroll wheel. They are only needed if you want independent control over horizontal and vertical scrolling rather than having them be combined as your computer's manufacturer has chosen to. Since the vast majority of computers from the vast majority of manufacturers provide independent controls in the form of a mouse wheel or equivalent gesture, it's mostly a non-issue. It's just an unfortunate irony that one of the few people in the world so insistent on independent vertical & horizontal scrolling seems to have bought one of the few computer models in the world that doesn't provide independent controls for this.
In reply to It certainly doesn't by Marc Sabatella
Well, first you say you refuse to provide scroll bars and then you say I was foolish to buy a mac. Here's a tip. listen to you users. There is nothing wrong with Apple or Macs and I'm super happy with my purchase for 5 years now. MuseScore is about the only program I can think of that has given me grief related to scrolling and a creeping canvas. I hear you, you don't consider me a valuable user or consider my needs important and that is well noted. Good luck with your project.
In reply to Well, first you say you by Dewdman42
No one ever said you were foolish or that Macs are bad products. I was just pointing what seemed a pretty obvious irony in how certaon factors have come together to make you unhappy with MuseScore. Sorry if you found that offensive for some reason. Should you feel like continuing in a calm, rational discussion of the technical issues, your input will continued to be valued.
In reply to Well, first you say you by Dewdman42
What is your problem? I'm also super happy with Macs, which I probably know better than you do, and I'm super happy with MuseScore, which I definitely know better than you do and works beautifully on Mac OS X. Certainly you're a valuable user, and your feedback has quite likely planted the seed for the implementation of a mode where pages are stacked vertically and a scroll bar replaces the Navigator. On the other hand, perhaps you've been too aggressive and confrontational about it, and you've instead turned the developers off the idea completely. I don't know; I'm not on the team. I'm just a happily satisfied user of MuseScore on a Mac.
Now, about the "Macs don't have scroll wheels" nonsense: assuming your mouse is not more than ten years old (and even if it is, that's no excuse for insisting there are no mice other than the mouse you've seen), that little white ball in the middle is your 360-degree scroll ball. When I have to resort to Wikipedia to prove common knowledge…! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mouse#Apple_Mighty_Mouse
Finally, here are a couple of videos (captured with QuickTime, compressed with Archive Utility) to prove I'm not making things up. The first one shows that I am on a MacBook running Mavericks with that option in System Preferences (and why did you call it the control panel? That's a Windows thing). The second demonstrates me swiping sideways on my trackpad, and MuseScore responding perfectly.
In reply to What is your problem? I'm by Isaac Weiss
FYI your movie preference page does not apply to me. I have a glass full multi-touch trackpad. My preference screen does not provide a way to turn horizantal swiping on and off, its always on. There are other threads on the net about this issue out there, other people unhappy with the unwieldy swipe scrolling. different trackpad models have different drivers and preference settings.
see this:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2026051 (the last post on that thread is particularly interesting)
This is what mine looks like:
ps you mis quoted me with a red herring accusation. I did not say mouses without scroll wheels do not exist. I said they are not the default. My macbookpro did not come with a mouse at all. it has the glass trackpad. I haven't shopped for a mac in a while, but last time I checked the mouse that comes with them did not include a scroll wheel. That isn't to say one can't be purchased as an add-on, certainly we can buy joysticks, trackpads, magic mice, and many other devices, but out of the box....scroll wheels are not always standard issue and that is especially true for laptop users.
I'm sorry if egos can't handle criticism, but absolutely no confrontation or drama was intended, just honest comments about the program, which as far as I'm concerned, needs some work in this particular area.
In reply to Great and there is plenty of by Dewdman42
If you're not able to scroll horizontally on a MacBook, it's probably because you disabled the option in System Preferences.
![trackpad.png]( "trackpad.png")
In reply to If you're not able to scroll by Isaac Weiss
you're missing the point. if that check box is checked, then two finger swiping is erratic and usually results in the score being dragged both vertically and horizantally at the same time and causing it to need to be repositioned again to keep working. if you uncheck that box then you could constrain swiping to only vertical, but of course MuseScore would not work very well with hardly any way to scroll horizantally at all except click drag I guess would work... And of course all the other mac apps would not be very happy.
In reply to you're missing the point. if by Dewdman42
by the way, which version of OSX is that? My trackpad control panel looks different under Mavericks and does not have that checkbox, which isn't to say it might not be buried in there somewhere, but near as I can tell, the horizontal scrolling is always on.
In reply to by the way, which version of by Dewdman42
It's in fact Mavericks, but it may look a little bit different because of the hardware—my MacBook is pre-Pro and pre-Air.
In reply to It's in fact Mavericks, but by Isaac Weiss
mine looks nothing like that at all. not even remotely close. I am not sure how to attach an image here or I would. Anyway I would not want to turn off horizontal scrolling globally in any case. MuseScore is the only app giving me problems.
In reply to you're missing the point. if by Dewdman42
Presumably if you unchecked the box, then most likely Shift+two-finger-swipe would scroll horizontally as it does for most computers. Sounds like you'd prefer that, so it's maybe it's worth investigating whether you can get that option.
In reply to Presumably if you unchecked by Marc Sabatella
Uhm.... first there is no box in my control panel to uncheck and second I have no reason to believe the SHIFT would cause the behavior you are suggesting. I will definitely research it a little bit because it would be nice to know if something like that is possible.
In reply to Uhm.... first there is no by Dewdman42
It does for other computers, including Zack's MacBook as he said above. I realize you don't currently have that option, but others apparently do, so I was just recommending you look into seeing why you don't have it.
In reply to It does for other computers, by Marc Sabatella
as I said, I will research it. As of now, my control panel looks COMPLETELY different then the one presented, so I have absolutely on idea, but anyway as I said already I have no intention of turning off horizontal trackpad scrolling globally just so I can be sane while using MuseScore with its limited scrollbar and click-drag madness(for me), forcing us to rely on click-drag or two finger swipe to move around, both of which are unwieldy.
I like the way my mac functions with all of my programs....except MuseScore, which seems bent on reliance on hardware features that are common on PC but not common on mac, rather then using scroll bars and such. None of my other notation programs have that problem. I do love the printed output of MuseScore though, you guys are rockin' it on that front. The GUI, well some stuff I like, but the click drag canvas I absolutely hate and without scroll bars or mouse wheels it seems I am stuck with it
Anyway, truly, I have nothing else to add and you guys just seem bent to discredit me as a user now rather than listen to feedback, so I'm off the topic. Good luck.
In reply to as I said, I will research by Dewdman42
I noticed something else today which may be part of the reason scrolling with swiping and click-drag seems so unwieldy. I have made some annotated videos to show MuseScore and Notion doing similar tasks.
MuseScoresScrolling.mp4_.zip
NotionScrolling.mp4_.zip
Summary
Nothing else to add at this point...
In reply to I noticed something else by Dewdman42
Thanks for the constructive comment. If you want to take a closer look, the relevant code is here https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/blob/073ba0a052aa720dc361396433a…
If musescore won't provide actual scroll bars, then they should at least give an option for the pages to be displayed vertically like in ms word. I have a 42 page score in front of me and it's incredibly difficult trying to scroll through it to play it as well as getting back to the beginning. I read through the thread and discovered some key shortcuts that I originally wasn't aware of, however, a page setup like that of ms word would make everyone's lives easier. It's true that the page uo/page down and home and end keys do scroll through in screenfuls and take you to the beginning and end, but there should be no reason why I can't use my mouse to scroll through a score. Most of the time my hand is already on my mouse to scroll up and down on the page, so I should be able to scroll horizontally as well. I think it would be beneficial to musescore if they want to remain user friendly if they gave the option of scrollbars or a vertical page display. I understand that not everyone wants to use scroll bars or have things vertically, which is why it should be optional that way those of us who do want these options can have them and those who don't don't have to use them.
In reply to If musescore won't provide by gingervampqueen
Have you seen: Edit/Preferences/Canvas -> Scroll pages?
In reply to If musescore won't provide by gingervampqueen
Hi, I would like scrollbars as well because they have become a sort of standard. However just to add to your list of shortcuts, holding the SHIFT key when using the mouse scrollwheel will be scrolling horizontally. And I love the feature that pages can now be displayed vertically, makes it easier to navigate.
In reply to Hi, I would like scrollbars by Henk De Groot
IMHO scollbars in the navigator would take too much real estate
In reply to If musescore won't provide by gingervampqueen
@gingervampqueen, Shoichi is correct—if your MuseScore is up-to-date, then you'll find this option is there, exactly as you described: "an option for the pages to be displayed vertically like in ms word."
In reply to If musescore won't provide by gingervampqueen
You *can* use your mouse to scroll through the score - use the *wheel*. It scrolls vertically by itself, horizontally with Shift.
Scrolling through a score is no easier or harder when laid out vertically versus horizontally, BTW, it's just different. Same exact number of clicks / keystrokes/ wheel gestures either way, though.