Page orientation: horiz./vert. or row/column
Maybe the terms "row" and "column" orientation are more appropriate for "horizontal" and "vertical" "page orientation" (see comment section for these source strings). I was thinking that it was referring to landscape and portrait.
Actually it seems to be not the page orientation itself, but the "page order".
Comments
"Layout pages in row" and "Layout pages in column"?
I think I am missing the context by just looking at the strings in transifex.
"Layout pages in a row" or "layout pages in a column"
In reply to I think I am missing the by Ad.Stakenborg
To be clear: I was just suggesting an alternative way to say it—those words are not actually used anywhere.
In reply to To be clear: I was just by Isaac Weiss
To put some context into the discussion.
This is what we are talking about, the dialog in Preferences > Canvas.
We currently have "Page orientation" Vertical/Horizontal
![Capture d'écran 2016-01-27 10.58.11.png]( "Capture d'écran 2016-01-27 10.58.11.png")
LibreOffice calls it "View Layout", but they have nothing matching our horizontal/vertical https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Zoom_and_View_Layout#View_layout
We could call it "Page layout" or maybe better, because we have a Layout menu already, "Page arrangement"? And then "Row/Column" or we keep "Vertical/Horizontal".
In reply to To put some context into the by [DELETED] 5
"Page arrangement" sounds good to me maybe even "Pages arrangement", plural? And along with keeping "horizontal/vertical" (those may need to be capitalized, "Horizontal/Vertical", don't they?)
In reply to "Page arrangement" sounds by Jojo-Schmitz
It's hard to find a wording that doesn't accidentally suggest portrait/landscape or conflict with the fact that Page View and Continuous View use the word "View."
Here's my best effort at combining suggestions for maximum clarity:
Miscellaneous
[ ] Draw antialiased
Proximity for selecting elements: [________]
O Arrange pages in horizontal row
O Arrange pages in vertical column
In reply to It's hard to find a wording by Isaac Weiss
In the printing industry it is called "page impositioning", but that will not be clear for anybody ;-)
Other suggestions:
Page order: □ in a row (horizontal) □ in a column (vertical)
or ...
Page order: □ left to right □ top to bottom
In reply to In the printing industry it by Ad.Stakenborg
"Page order: □ left to right □ top to bottom"
I would think that this is the easiest and clearest when translated into different languages.
In reply to "Page order: □ left to right by underquark
"Page order" has connotations of its own. The alternative to top-to-bottom order is logically bottom-to-top order, but it isn't—and no matter what, the pages will be "ordered" first through last.
Fundamentally, this is about the preference for displaying in MuseScore, isn't it? Also, it doesn't have to be in
Options: ⦿ 1 ⦿ 2
format—it can be
⦿ Option 1
⦿ Option 2
just as well. Here's the soon-to-be-replaced portion of the dialog currently:
![Screen Shot 1.png]( "Screen Shot 1.png")
![Screen Shot.png]( "Screen Shot.png")
But here's a similar section elsewhere in the Preferences:
With that in mind, how does
--------------------------------------
Miscellaneous
⃞ Draw antialiased
Proximity for selecting elements: [6________⇳]
⦿ Display pages in horizontal row
⦿ Display pages in vertical column
--------------------------------------
look to you?
That's my strongest argument. ;-)
In reply to "Page order" has connotations by Isaac Weiss
The dialog is using "radio buttons" now, and you suggest "tick boxes".
Only one radio button can/has to be pressed, 1 0 or 0 1
Tick boxes can be combined 0 0, 1 0, 0 1 or 1 1
In this case it is hard to find just one term for one tick box,
so this kind of dialog is not suitable here imho..
In stead of page order (that could also relate to forward and reverse as you wrote)
an alternativw could be page positioning
By the way, the first dialog items look like single radio buttons... A single selection should be a tick box as a UI convention...
In reply to The dialog is using "radio by Ad.Stakenborg
No, I'm suggesting radio buttons. I'm not sure how those symbols are displaying to you, but they're definitely supposed to be radio buttons.
Here's how what I wrote looks on my system:
In reply to No, I'm suggesting radio by Isaac Weiss
Ok
this would make the first string redundant
but only one button can be selected, probably you didnt have the right symbol here ;-)
Th radio buttons in the other menu are ok btw, they are alternatives to each other
i just would add "a" in "a row" and " a column"
In reply to Ok this would make the first by Ad.Stakenborg
Indeed, it would make the first string redundant. And you're right that I couldn't find the right symbol for an un-selected radio button. :-]
I'm not sure about the "a". Looking back at https://musescore.org/sites/musescore.org/files/Screen%20Shot_4.png, it doesn't say "Continue the last session/"Start with a new score." Conventions are strange, sometimes.
In reply to Indeed, it would make the by Isaac Weiss
Two radio buttons on their own are not good. They need a title.
I'm ok moving this out of Miscellaneous and putting them in their own group if necessary, but it needs a title. I still prefer arrangement over display.
Page display/arrangement
⊙ In horizontal row
⦿ In vertical column
In reply to Two radio buttons on their by [DELETED] 5
Indeed, the other mentioned radio button list also has a title.
A title for radio buttons seems a valid UI convention to me.
The telegram style without "a" and "the" is a way to shorten strings, but I prefer to keep them in some strings for easy reading and understanding. I started to do so in some translated strings because the UI allows longer strings after all. Especially in this case the "a" is meaningfull.
The slash should be avoided though..
suggestion
Arrange displayed pages:
@ in (a) horizontal row
O in (a) vertical column
In reply to Indeed, the other mentioned by Ad.Stakenborg
OK. good for me. Zack, Jojo, underquark?
In reply to OK. good for me. Zack, Jojo, by [DELETED] 5
horizontal row and vertical column seems tautological to me
In reply to horizontal row and vertical by Jojo-Schmitz
Less tautology...
Arrange displayed pages:
⊙ Placed horizontally
⦿ Stacked vertically
EDIT:
Display pages:
⊙ Place horizontally
⦿ Stack vertically
In reply to Less tautology... Arrange by Jm6stringer
The title was the problem then. I would go for
Display pages:
⊙ Horizontally
⦿ Vertically
In reply to The title was the problem by [DELETED] 5
Sweet and succinct...!
In reply to The title was the problem by [DELETED] 5
The problem is, again, if you don't know what it means, it might be taken to refer to landscape/portrait orientation. I think "horizontal row" and "vertical column" are clarifications, not tautologies. So, "⦿ In horizontal row." Other than that, perfect.
In reply to The problem is, again, if you by Isaac Weiss
If it were landscape/portrait, it would be named that and not vertical/horizontal
In reply to The problem is, again, if you by Isaac Weiss
Zack wrote: "The problem is, again, if you don't know what it means, it might be taken to refer to landscape/portrait orientation."
Regarding 'orientation'...
If one takes a single, duly notated score sheet (e.g. 8½" x 11") and rotates it 90° it is 'horizontal', but not necessarily 'landscape'--- which is why the words 'portrait' and 'landscape' are used for clarity.
Here we are talking about *multiple* pages, not *single* sheets. So, one can display the pages along a horizontal line; or stack them along a vertical line -- without affecting the 'orientation' of an individual sheet.
Regards.
In reply to Zack wrote: "The problem is, by Jm6stringer
But we don't want to suggest that this preference rotates pages 90°, either!
In reply to The title was the problem by [DELETED] 5
It could also be?
Page thumbnails:
⊙ Horizontally
⦿ Vertically
In reply to The title was the problem by [DELETED] 5
@ lasconic:
I like your short and simple suggestion but would make the following small changes:
Scroll pages on screen:
⊙ Horizontally
⦿ Vertically
I think changing the word 'display' to 'scroll' removes most ambiguity, and adding 'on screen' nails it down tight.
In reply to @ lasconic: I like your by Recorder485
I think I agree, the word "scroll" seems to capture pretty simply what we really mean here. I don't think we even need "on screen"; I don't think people have scrolled paper much since the days of 1970's dot matrix printers :-)
In reply to I think I agree, the word by Marc Sabatella
;o) Yeah, and the scary thing for those of us who remember those days is that there are now adult users who weren't even born when that was the norm!
I am wondering about the translation issues on this. I am fluent in French, and would suggest 'déroulement'. I'm only semi-literate in Spanish and Italian, and in German I'm pathetic, so I can't help much there.
Add-on question: I'm on Win7Pro and can change the mouse-wheel scrolling from vertical to horizontal by holding down SHIFT (which is very convenient!). Is that behaviour OS-dependent, or built into MuseScore?
In reply to I think I agree, the word by Marc Sabatella
I still feel like "row" and "column" are helpful terms, but
Scroll pages:
⊙ Horizontally
⦿ Vertically
is fine.
In reply to In the printing industry it by Ad.Stakenborg
@ Ad.Stakenborg:
Actually, 'page imposition' is not the same thing at all. Individual pages are 'imposed' (positioned) upon large sheets of paper in a particular order and orientation so that when the sheet is then folded, stitched, and trimmed at the bindery stage, those pages will follow each other in the proper order in the finished book or score. Most commercial book printing is done in 16- or 32-page signatures, and depending on the fold and cut order ('work and turn' or 'work and tumble') the placement and orientation of the pages changes. To see what the imposition for standard signatures looks like, the best reference is International Paper's standard work, Pocket Pal: A Graphic Arts Production Handbook.
But you are right that very few MuseScore users would be likely to understand (or even misunderstand) the term; it would be simply gibberish to most of them. ;o)
In reply to @ Ad.Stakenborg: Actually, by Recorder485
@Recorder485
Indeed, impositioning can be quite fun in offset printing, but also very simple impositioning schemes exist, like just rows or columns :-)
For example a tool like "Quite imposing" (what's in a name...) can also simply put multiple pages on a sheet, in rows and/or columns.
In Acrobat you can simply "impose" 2 a5 sheets (pdf) on an A4 (2 up) when printing (a.k.a. a multiple up scheme )
I use this simple imposition to print a5 musescore parts on a4 paper (vertical, in a column, stacked, or below each other :-)
It's an "Arrangement of multiple pages" after all..
But we don't want to suggest that this preference rotates pages 90°, either!
Would anyone expect rotation? Or even desire it?
So... for this:
Display pages:
⦿ Horizontally
⊙ Vertically
would you expect something like this?
and for this:
Display pages:
⊙ Horizontally
⦿ Vertically
would you expect something like this?
Regards.
In reply to But we don't want to suggest by Jm6stringer
In fact, that would be my best guess.
Arrangement of displayed pages:
@ horizontal
O vertical
Then the title already suggests multipe pages, so the orientation of the page itself is not at stake.
By the way, I just wrote some music and I noticed:
in the view menu (3rd menu tab) there are two setting to place your documents in a row or/and in a column. Same issue.
I translated this as "naast elkaar" (next to each other) and "boven elkaar" (on top of each other}.
What are the source strings here?
I assume that within these document windows you can select the arrangement of the displayed pages. To be consistent, I should translate "horizontal" as "naast elkaar" as well I think...
Thank you all. I believe we have a consensus and I will commit the change.