Bagpipe embellishment palette available for test - feedback requested
As of today (commit a8feda3), MuseScore trunk contains a palette with bagpipe embellishments. This simplifies entering bagpipe music considerably, as the embellishments can simply be entered from the palette. Either drag and drop from the palette to a note, or select a note and double click on the embellishment in the palette. See in the feature request forum and issue #13108: Add palette of bagpipe doublings.
I'd like to request the bagpipers to test it and provide feedback:
- does the user interface work OK ?
- does the palette look OK ?
- anything I need to do to improve it ?
The set of embellishments in the palette is currently limited. I will complete it after I get confirmation everything works OK. The full set will be based on the list in bww_doc.pdf, as attached to node #13001.
Is this set sufficient ?
Will the embellishment names have to be translated ?
A picture of the new palette is attached.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| bagpipe_palette.png | 19.93 KB |
Comments
The node Leon is refering to : http://musescore.org/en/node/13001
The list of doublings: http://musescore.org/sites/musescore.org/files/bww_doc.pdf
I'm not a bagpipe player, but it seems that doubling are often 16th notes while in the palette they are shown as 8th notes.
The previous comment is (almost) correct - bagpipe ornaments are generally written as demi-semi-quavers (32nd notes), with the stems pointing upwards. I don't currently have MuseScore installed so can't provide proper user feedback at present (I'll get on that ASAP!) but I would imagine that if it's possible, having submenus within the palette (e.g. for "grace notes", "strikes", "doublings" etc.) might be a good way of keeping things neat.
Great idea, this will definitely save pipers a lot of time!
In reply to The previous comment is by DuncanMenzies
Updates pending in pull request 434:
- improved drawing
- grace notes drawn as 32nd notes
- ledger line on high A
- many more embellishments added (more than enough to justify submenus)
In reply to Updates pending in pull by Leon Vinken
Not sure what you mean by submenu but I would keep the palette like this. The bagpipe palette will probably not be shown by default anyway, so it will be showed only in Display -> Master Palette. What I would propose, it's to make a "workspace" suitable for bagpipe composers/users. This workspace can have as many palettes as necessary (doublings etc...) and use the elements from the bagpipe master palette. It could also remove elements and palettes that are not useful for bagpipes (clef palette, keysig?) etc.... This workspace could then be added to Edition -> Workspaces.
In reply to Updates pending in pull by Leon Vinken
When adding any grace note greater than a doubling (ie any grace note of 3 notes or more) nightly build crashes.
Example: when dragging any grace note (triple or greater) note on staff, nightly build crashes when note is dropped onto target (not during dragging, always on dropping). Behaviour repeatable many times with any grace note of this type. Behaviour not seen for single strikes or doubles.
Looking good though!
In reply to Crashes on adding some notes by sushiguru
..it looks like it has issues when I add a third triplet grace note to a single bar. I can happily add two to each bar, but a third causes it to crash.
In reply to A bit more by sushiguru
Can you give exact steps to reproduce? I tried to add 3 x 5 grace notes from the Bagpipe palette without crash.
In reply to Can you give exact steps to by [DELETED] 5
See issue #22330: Crash when adding third grace note, which contains detailed instructions and information.
Note that the crash is not related to the bagpipe menu at all, but to the grace note beam layout algorithm.
Current trunk (as of 30 minutes ago) still crashes reproducibly for me on this issue (OS X 10.7.5).
May I also suggest that the note head size for these grace notes be slightly smaller? Perhaps this could be a configurable preference, so that individual users can tweak the appearance of grace notes.
I have several piping tune books where the grace note diameter is easily half the main note head diameter; it is normal that the grace notes are tiny - pipers tend to play them from shape recognition, so often legibility can be poor!
Cheers.
In reply to Suggestion by sushiguru
You can change the size of grace notes in Style -> general -> Sizes
OK - see attached draft of 'Green Hills'; tried this on a different PC today with the same outcome. Try adding a D Throw to the last D of the first bar.
The_Green_Hills_of_Tyrol.mscz
Also, just tried playback on this; the notes may be written with a value of 32, but are actually played more like a 64 note; they take no time from the bar (and so musescore probably won't like them in playback - they sound strange) - might be worth having an option not to play grace notes in playback.
In reply to Example by sushiguru
I've reworked the score a little (turns out, though we *really* wanted to have an anacrusis to this, 3/4 pipe marches are never written this way, so attached is a new version. The nightly build still crashes when I try and add a D Throw to the same D (now first D in bar 2), so it's not strictly related to having more than 2 in a bar. Just something downright strange going on.
The_Green_Hills_of_Tyrol.mscz
Just wanted to upload these bagpipe BMW1____.zip embellishment fonts and hope you find them useful.
I am a bagpiper and pipe music composer, and have been using applications such as Bagpipe Music Writer quite faithfully for 22 years. If there is any way I can help out here with the development of a FULL set of embellishments for highland bagpipe music, I'd be happy to assist. To have an app I can use on my MacBook Pro really floats my boat. I want to help you guys see this through...
In reply to Greetings by pipermacbear
Have you tried a nightly build? Are there particular things you find missing?
In reply to Have you tried a nightly by Marc Sabatella
I am kind of new here, and am unsure as to how these "nightly builds" work... are they just beta versions that I can try out?
In reply to no not yet by pipermacbear
It is more like Alpha Versions. See http://musescore.org/en/download#Nightly-versions
In reply to no not yet by pipermacbear
Alpha meaning not stable enough to be ready to call beta, but still, yes, you can download and try out, and it won't interfere with your existing 1.3 installation. You'll see "Bagpipe Embellisments" toward the bottom of the palette on the left of the screen when you start up( if you don't, you may have to go to Edit / Workspaces and turn on the "Advanced" workspace). As you'll see when you open the palette, it's quite large. Whether or not it constitutes a "full set" I cannot say, but you can see for yourself.
I would like to see a page with the "full set" of bagpipe embellishments...
I don't know if this is still being developed or not, but I would greatly appreciate if the playback of the embilishments were improved - they are way too slow to listen to almost to the point where I have to create 2 versions, one without for playback and one with for sheet music.
In reply to I don't know if this is still by Kenneth Macfarlane
Hear hear Kenneth, I very rarely bother with the playback though, I am more here for the nice clean printed pipe music score aspect of it all. You are not alone!